Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
03-29-2012, 04:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shook-Yang
The origins of the Gunboat: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunboat
If you have something other than guns, it is not a gunboat.
Your link doesn't show me a beam boat. It doesn't even show me a starship with any type of energy array as a weapon. What does it have to do with Star Trek Online?

I am almost obligated to link THIS.

As you can see the Love Boat is far superior to your Gun Boat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yogurt21
And again beam boat is 6-8 and has been 6-8 and will be 6-8 regardless of what you personally think.

testing has shown that even at 125 weapon power that 8th beam is a wasted weapon slot. throwing a torp in there with give you a nice burst damage finish.
If you don't want to listen to me, listen to ^^^ right there. Sure Yogurt doesn't have a link to a wikipedia article about the amazing Love Boat, but Yogurt is talking stats. Combat stats. For the ship you fly when you're not reading wikis and sending your DOFFs off to AFK-XP for you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
03-29-2012, 05:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shook-Yang
The origins of the Gunboat: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunboat
If you have something other than guns, it is not a gunboat.

Similarly, if you have something other than beams is not a beam boat. What you would have, is a classic weapon loadout or configuration.


The procs aren't worth the reduction in damage though.
actually its funny you picked an article from the civil war. Modern day ships known as the gun boats of today are known as destroyers and battleships. If im not mistaken they have 20 mm gatlings cannons depth charges and torpedos all on 1 boat. Are they not gun boats as you qualify them? I think your thinking old tech. Gunboats pre 1910 had cannons which fired a projectile that was a 30 pound round peice of steel. There wasnt any technology for torpedos really and the combustion engine was really just starting. You think an ironclad wouldnt of had a torpedo if it was avalible? 1 thing i used to watch military and history stations cause i love learning strategy and here is a report on american gunboats not a wiki. also new gunboats still carry torpedos but are mounted on cigarette boats and hydrofoils gotta love it.
http://www.gunboatriders.com/pubs/hi...boat_navy.html

Remember knowledge is dangerous when its not complete.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
03-29-2012, 09:38 AM

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but there is some misinformation in this thread.

As a cruiser, you SHOULD be swapping power levels on the fly, that's what cruisers excel at. Emergency Power to ___________ before the activation of another bo ability is your friend. Emergency Power to __________ will keep yourself and others alive. A cruiser that can swap levels, imo, will outperform one that doesnt in a match. For example:
-High Shields + Aux when you're being focus fired (defense mode)
-High Weps + Aux when you're not + EPtS = High Weps/Aux/Shields with shield resists bonus

none swapping
-High Weps + Shields (if you dont used aux based heals)
-High Shields + High Aux + EPtW =High Weps/Aux/Shields for a period of time

out of all the EPt___, imo the EPtS has the edge. If you are deadset on flying only with high power to Shields + Aux, then you'll need EPtW. Keep in mind though, that's one less self-preservation heal when you're being focus fired, and what good will ES be with low shields? What good will a healboat be if it cant fight near effectively against being focus fired, the team would then be without a healer for some time.

A healboat that runs shields + aux only will nerf team dps. A healboat that runs with fixed power levels only will perform worse than a healboat that can swap power levels. It really isnt worth going with kinetic damage due to poor turn rate and overall skill point allocation.

here is a suggestion
Suggestions
(the linked example is more on the end full def/team heals spectrum)

Now what will boost your overall dps are BO abilities. You might have to sacrifice a team heal, a self/team heal, or whatever for this. My suggestion would be a combination of of an attack pattern (apd works both ways) and DEM.

The real question here is how much of a healboat do you really want to be, and what are you willing to sacrifice in terms of self preservation or dps in order to excel at it. Once we know that, then it'll be much easier to specify consoles, bo abilities, skill points... and of course what cruiser you will be flying. Ignoring +1 oddysseys for the moment (unless you plan to fly one)
More healboatness = starcruiser
More DPS = excelsior
In between = Assault cruiser, Dreadnought

It all depends on what percent of your play style will factor into healing, dps, etc.
Are you maxing being a healboat?
Do you want to be a DPSer that can play support as a healboat?
It's all about percentages of what you want

Would I be correct in assuming that you are an engineering captain?


Hope this helps you out some


PS If you are deadset on flying only High Shields & High Aux with little to no power level reallocation, then this combo might help you.
8beam array + FAW or some attack pattern or both (if you want to def and off, then its APD), DEM (dem3 if you can grab it) + EPtW3... note that you are now becoming less of a tanky healboat with this setup.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
03-29-2012, 11:18 AM
If you're an engineering captain, you don't need consoles to assist you as you swap out to other power level settings. Your BOFF powers and your own innate Engi powers can do the job extremely well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
03-29-2012, 02:19 PM
PS also have a read on this guy's post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maelwys
Well, I can maybe help you a little bit, if you're thinking of Odyssey DPS-with-support-capability.

WARNING: LONG post ahead...

---------------------------------------------------

I fly an engineer main, and until recently my ships of choice for this character were a Star Cruiser (Support) and a Fleet Escort (DPS).

I tested out the new Odyssey variants over the weekend.

The Engineering version is effectively a Star Cruiser with worse turn rate and one extra Eng Console Slot. Not really anything to help it in terms of DPS.
The Tacical version has an extra Tac console slot (yay stacked +damage% consoles!)
The Science version has Sensor Analysis (yay extra+damage% buff!)

My main problem with the Sci Odyssey was that, although with Sensor Analysis it can technically output slightly higher damage than the Tac version (+33.3% compared to +26%/28%, depending on the rank of your tac consoles - I'm just counting energy damage here as that'll be where the majority of your DPS comes from unless you're planning to build a torpedo boat!) Sensor Analysis is limited in a few ways:

(i) Target must stay within 10KM - This is usually acceptable in the vast majority of PVE, but there are exceptions - perhaps the most notable one for me is that I tend to tank Tac Cubes in PUG ESTFs. For normal cubes I can just constantly orbit around them, broadsiding at max speed, but for Tacs I've found that it's much safer to tank them from exactly 10KM outside of their invisible torpedo arcs - going under this range in order to shoot at them in order to gain aggro and fire off my buffed-up shots (e.g. Torpedo Salvos etc.), then reversing back over again once I start getting badly pummelled in order to heal up. I don't do much PvP these days, but I imagine hit + run tactics would mean that more nimble targets would be far more likely to fly out of range there too.

(ii) Target must remain targetted - This is a more common issue. You're going to have to switch targets pretty regularly in order to properly place your Debuffs and Crowd Control abilities on enemies, never mind any Heals and Buffs on teammates. Even if you're flying an all-out "glass cannon" build escort, you'll likely have AoE attacks that you want to target at a particular group of foes. If, for example, you're in the Khittomer Accord Space mission, fighting a cube, and a bunch of probes fly past unchecked... the natural thing to do is detarget the cube, target the middle probe, and fire off a Gravity Well (or Cannon Scatter Volley/Torpedo spread/etc) then switch back to the cube again once you're happy that the probes have been taken care of.

(iii) It takes time to build up the extra damage - in order to START getting a better damage buff than than a Tac Odyssey, a Sci Odyssey must maintain target lock on their target for 48 Seconds (assuming MkXI consoles) or 54 Seconds (Assuming MkXII consoles). And while they're building up that buff they'll be doing much less damage. My slightly dodgy maths skills worked this out to mean it takes approximately 123 Seconds (for Mk XI consoles) or 170 Seconds (for Mk XII consoles) for the Sci Odyssey to apply enough extra cumulative +damage% to break even with the Tac Odyssey. So basically, the Sci Odyssey is only better if you're fighting something you're likely to take longer than 2-3 minutes to kill. Although since Sensor scan buffs both Energy Damage and Torpedos a Sci version will usually be slightly better than that in practice.

With all of the above points in mind, the Tac Odyssey starts looking like the better choice.

---------------------------------------------------

And then we get to Power bonuses.

SCI Odyssey gets (+10 Shields, +10 Aux)
TAC Odyssey gets (+10 Weapons, +5 Shields, +5 Aux)

Assuming that you don't want to run alternating copies of Emergency Power to Weapons, the maximum weapon power you are likely to get whilst keeping your equipment choices reasonably free is +20. Meaning that It's going to be VERY difficult to spec out your Sci Odyssey so that you can run it with a constant maxxed-out 125 weapon power. Conversely, the Tac Odyssey will be able to hit 125 weapon power at a base setting of 95 or higher.

+5 from a Universal Borg Console
+5 from 9/9 Starship Warp Core Performance
+10 from 9/9 Starship Weapon Performance
(getting +5 requires only 3/9 Starship Weapon Performance for FAR less skill points)

Running at 125 Weapons power without EPTW frees up your BOFF choices considerably. It lets you use the Universal LTCom slot for a Tac or Sci BOFF, whilst still picking up a few higher-level Engineering powers (such as Engineering Team, Aux-to-SIF and Extend Shields) in the Commander BOFF slot for Self/Teammate/Kang support.

Yes, you can use "Chevron seperation" to seperate your Saucer section and gain another +10 Weapons, which is a good ability and often very useful, however the Tac Oddysey can do that as well, plus whenever you're seperated you'll lose the option to deploy your pet Escort (which is quite fun and unlike the Saucer pet is quite a substantial DPS buff providing you can keep it alive - which a Commander Engineering BOFF often can) and if you die (still happens in Elite STFs occasionally) you'll need to wait 4-5 mins (depending on recharge buffs) until your cooldown recharges before you can seperate again.

---------------------------------------------------

If you're interested, my current Tac Odyssey layout is:
(FORE) Beam Array x3, Quantum Launcher x1
(AFT) Beam Array, Turret (x2), Hargh'peng

BOFFS:
TAC A - Tac Team I, Fire at Will II, Attack Pattern Omega I, Attack Pattern Delta III
TAC B - Tac Team I, Attack Pattern Beta, Torpedo Spread III, Cannon Scatter Volley III
SCI A - Hazard Emitters I, Transfer Shield Strength II, Tractor Beam Repulsors II
SCI B - Science Team I, Hazard Emitters II, Gravity Well I
ENG A - EPTA I, Eng Team II, EPTS III, Aux2SIF III
ENG B - EPTA I, Extend Shields I, EPTS III, Aceton Beam III
ENG C - EPTA I, Aux2SIF I, EPTS III, Extend Shields III
ENG D - EPTS I, Eng Team II, Aux2SIF II, Extend Shields III
ENG E - EPTS I, Extend Shields I, Eng Team III, Aux2SIF III

The variety of BOFFs allows me to use a wide range of setups, but there're three basic ones:

SETUP (1) *** Tanking-focussed ***

[for Hull Tanking/Healing support]

Universal Ensign: Tac B or Sci B
Tac LT: Tac A
Sci LT: Sci A
Universal LtCom: Eng B
Eng Com: Eng A

[for Shield Tanking/Buffing support]

Universal Ensign: Tac B or Sci B
Tac LT: Tac A
Sci LT: Sci A
Universal LtCom: Eng A
Eng Com: Eng C


SETUP (2) *** Control-focussed ***

Universal Ensign: Eng D or Eng E
Tac LT: Tac A
Sci LT: Sci A or Sci B
Universal LtCom: Sci A or Sci B
Eng Com: Eng D or Eng E


SETUP (3) *** Damage-focussed ***

Universal Ensign: Eng D or Eng E
Tac LT: Tac A
Sci LT: Sci A
Universal LtCom: Tac B
Eng Com: Eng D or Eng E

---------------------------------------------------

I have to admit, I've found myself flying in Setup 3 unless the situation calls for anything else. But it's very, very handy to be able to flick between "roles" whenever the situation calls for it.

Power levels in Setup #3 (DPS mode, with all passive skills etc and EPTS I) sit at:
125/100, 92/35, 62/40, 62/25 (Extra Engine Power is to cap defence, at 80% with my equipment/traits)
or 125/90, 99/60, 52/25, 52/25 with Chevron Seperation.

The benefit of flying with a Beam Array/Broadsiding setup, compared to Dual Beams or cannons, is that you can maintain maximum impulse speed (and thus capped defence) whilst broadsiding stuff for maximum DPS output. The only time I straighten up against anything short of an eSTF Tac cube is to fire off a Quantum Torp Spread III. This fits in pretty well with the Oddysey because your turn rate, even when enhanced by equipment and passive captain skills, pretty much sucks unless you ditch your saucer section. Even with an RCS Accelerator Console, I can only hit 10.7 Degrees/Sec with the above power levels... plenty for broadsiding, but pants for trying to keep stuff in front of you.

Or if I'm in Setup #1 (with both EPTA I and EPTS III) I can hit:
125/100, 102/25, 62/40, 93/35 (max DPS + capped defence + good survivability/support)
or 73/35, 125/60, 52/25, 124/80 (max support mode, with reasonable DPS and 73% defence)

The general idea for "Tanking" would be to increase your survivability and threat generation as much as possible. This usually translates into slotting a good amount of armor consoles and self-buffs, and using AoE damaging abilities like Fire at Will to grab threat from multiple ships at once. Ranking up "Starship threat control" can help too. I only have it at 6/9, and I hardly ever meet anyone in a PUG who is able to reliably take hate from me, as long as I'm running at 125 weapons strength and broadsiding whatever they're shooting at. The downside is that you can't "disable" the extra threat if you just want to play DPS, so you need to always build yourself to be pretty survivable even whenever you're not actively trying to tank. There are some tricks to tanking tougher enemies like cubes, but generally if you're flying at max speed, using your heals/buffs intelligently, balancing your shields and shooting your guts out, you'll do just fine.

---------------------------------------------------

TL;DR version - build your Tac Oddysey with mostly Beam arrays unless you're never planning to hold onto your Saucer. If you're going for DPS, grab a good Tac BOFF (with Tac Team) for that LTCom slot. Finally, use the Ensign slot to pick up two copies of EPTS, and loadup the remaining Engineering and Sci Slots with a bunch of good shield and hull buffs/heals. Job done.

There's some interesting stuff there to consider
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
03-29-2012, 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyprodimus
Yeah, at lower weapons power its a given that you do less damage. But Im more concerned with watching health bars than maneuvering for torpedoes.

Im just looking for the most useful proc for a beam boat with low power.

Definately not antiproton.
Maybe disruptors to spread debuffs
or tetryon to drain shields
or phasers in hopes of a shield drop
probably not polaron
and plasma is underpowered
antiporton as natural +20% critd even if other modifiers are on the said beams arrays

by proc the phasers or distruptors are better than any that you listed, lolarons are for certain builds to make it effective, tets outside of the polarize are okay but the polarize are better with 10% proc change, and that is my opinio on it.
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