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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
[Some Specs have been updated]

I just came from a fascinating STF in which I was using a Recon Science Vessel, Lvl 50 and my Science Captain.

What an embarrassment. Compared to my MVAE or my Hegh'Ta, it was ridiculous. I would very much appreciate some feedback on how to have a constructive Sci / STF build (must survive Elite's really, and serve a useful function - or what is the point?).

My ideal weapon type is Polaron, though AP is also a possibility.

I will update this with the build, as suggestions come in.

SCIENCE - Recon Vessel

Front Weapons

2 x Dual Beam Bank (Type to be decided, likely polaron initially due to Dominion Mission availablity)
1 x Photon Torpedo Launcher / or Breen Cluster Mine Launcher / Rapid Fire Launcher

Rear Weapons

3 x Polaron Turrets, or two and switch in Mine Launcher to create 'slow zones' in STF's

Deflector

Borg when available, Jem Hadar Deflector until then

Impulse

Borg, Jem Hadar Impulse until then

Shields

MACO Eventually, but Paratrinic Shield Array until then

Devices

1 x Red Matter Capacitor
1 x Subspace Module
10 x Aux Battery

Engineering Slots (2)

2 x Resists (type to be decided)
1 x Assimilated Module

Science Slots

Field Generator (+35% Capacity) + Mods that Boost GW3

Tactical Slots (3)

x 3 Polaron Damage Modules

Bridge Officers

Lt. Tactical
[Fire at Will I] [Beam Overload II]

Ensign Tactical
[Tactical Team I]

Lt. Engineering
[EPTW 1] [EPTS II] (Rigged to run chained together] + 3 GREEN Damage Control Engineers

Commander Science
[Polarize Hull] [Hazard Emitters II] [Tykin's Rift II] Gravity Well III]

Lt. Commander Science
[Tractor Beam I] Transfer Shield Strength II] [Gravity Well I] TSS2 Set to auto-activate when available
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
03-25-2012, 04:36 AM
You could try 3x turrets in rear, a Quantum torpedo and 2x Dual Beam Banks up front. Torpedo spread and Beam Overload II.

The rest of my abilities are more drains and PvP based, so they dont really help in STF. Not to mention I havent respeced yet so my captain isnt optimized.

That all being said, You can still dish out 3500+ dps, which is a lot more than most of the PUG escorts Ive seen.

One thing that Science ships excel in, is Crowd Control. Gravity well is perfect for the bonus objectives.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
03-25-2012, 05:01 AM
Yeah, a great use of Gravity Well I've seen is in Infected when you pop the transformer and have to go to work on the spheres, grouping them all together means their explosions harm eachother, and it's easier to get them all with shield damaging AOE like CPB or Vent Theta. Throw in some torp spreads and a sometiems time consuming part of the mission's over in seconds.

Another big help I've seen from Sci ships is using TBR to herd probes away from the portal in Khitomer Accord, or the Kang in Cure and using Tyken's Rift on boss ships to essentially pull the plug on them and render them almost inert and vulnerable to a good kicking from the escorts.

All in all, a science ship with some good crowd control and debuff powers can really speed up an STF. The only real "deadweight" I think is the lower DPS cruisers, a KDF cruiser with DHCs, or a Tactical Excelsior with 8 beams can put out decent (although still not escort like...) damage, but most cruisers you see in pugs just slow the DPS down without being that much more sturdy in a lot of cases. They'd be more useful if people bothered to spec into threat control, but you can tell immidiately that isn't the case most of the time when escorts get the agro instead.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
03-25-2012, 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jethro777
I just came from a fascinating STF in which I was using a Recon Science Vessel, Lvl 50 and my Science Captain.

What an embarrassment. Compared to my MVAE or my Hegh'Ta, it was ridiculous. I would very much appreciate some feedback on how to have a constructive Sci / STF build (must survive Elite's really, and serve a useful function - or what is the point?). Both escorts and Science vessels are very important in STFs. Cruisers, can do without them. Some are decent, but most people dont use them right I've found...

My ideal weapon type is Polaron, though AP is also a possibility.

I will update this with the build, as suggestions come in.

SCIENCE - Recon Vessel

Front Weapons

3 x Polaron Beam Arrays RSV has a decent turn rate, use DBBx2 instead, with a torpedo as the third

Rear Weapons

2 x Polaron Beam Arrays Just 2 weapons here??!? Equip 3 turrents here, keep bad guys in front of you (easy in STFs)

Deflector

Borg Fine

Impulse

Borg Fine

Shields

MACO Eventually, but Paratrinic Shield Array until then Fine

Devices

1 x Red Matter Capacitor Fine
1 x Subspace Module Fine

Engineering Slots (2)
Personally, I stick +resists here, and assimilated module

Science Slots (4)
+Sheild console here, then sci consoles depending on skills

Tactical Slots (3)
+Polaron Damage

Bridge Officers
Just general comments for this. In a RSV, your main focus could be crowd control. I have seen RSV essentially keep probes stuck indefinitely. Gravity Well (make sure you equip the DOff to go along with it) and Tractor Beam Repulsors work great for this. Since you're using Polaron, you can also try a Energy Drain build, but not as great in STFs in my opinion. So I would get GW3, Tractor Beam Repulsors, and some heals for your sci slots. Engineer slots, EPS obviously. Tactical slots, Torpedo Spread (combine with Gravity well, tons of damage in a concentrated area) and Tactical Teams.
Comments in red
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
03-25-2012, 11:00 AM
Running 2 dual beam banks up front is ok but as a science vessell your weapon power should be at a minimum compared to other ships. So instead try running 1 dual beam bank and then 2 torpedos up front. I do this and i put out pretty decent dps numbers. I run 2 photon torps up front and i suggest running 2 blue quality atleast doffs that lower the recharge time of your torpedos. If your lucky they will practically fire one after another. And then run 2 either HY or TS for your tact boff depending on how you run.

For the engi boff slot i highly recommend running 2 EPtS. And then for the sci slots i run GravWell 3, Tychens 2, feedback pulse, 2 hazard emitters and tractor beam or repulsors depending on your preference.

This setup has worked really well for me for helping with crowd control and still doing decent dps numbers,
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
03-25-2012, 11:33 AM
sci ships can be useful in elite stf. However if i'm using the nebula for example, i have got to try and set it up more like my tact is flying it than as a healer/support ship for others.

The Nebula and Reconnaissance Class sci ships are pretty decent and i do ok in Elite space stfs with them.

my normal boff setup

lt uni - tact team 1 torp spread 2
lt tact - Tact team 1 and torp spread 2 if in KA i change the torp spread to FAW 2 if i'm on probe duty
15 second cool down between them
Lt cmd eng - Engineer team 1 RSP 1 and EPTS 3 (This last skill needs to be trained by a Engineer i had someone i my fleet do it for me)
Or in KA on probe duty i swap EPTS for EPW 3
Cmd sci Polarize hull 1 TSS 2 Tykens rift 2 and GW 3
Ens Sci Hazard emitters

Weapons
Fore
AP Mk 12 Single beams x2 and a MK 12 Quantum Torp

Aft
same or i go all beams

for consoles
Engineer
RCS -The energy/kinetic resist one 18% and the flow cap to keep weapon power high
Tact
2 x anti-pro mags
science
Borg console Field gen 35% shield cap then the 2 consoles that effect GW

The same build is used for the Reconnaissance exact no 2nd torp spread its 2 x tact team 1 and i run power settings on attack.

I also spent all my skill points as if i was creating dragon build for a cruiser, I tried spending points on science and that was a mistake, i couldn't do any damage with them.

So at present spending points on sci based space skills is not recommend as elite stf is about damage which is why a lot of people esp Cure space want escorts for the dps

Hope i haven't just made myself sound like a know-nothing twit. Wouldn't be the 1st time and def not the last time
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
03-25-2012, 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aternal99 View Post
Running 2 dual beam banks up front is ok but as a science vessell your weapon power should be at a minimum compared to other ships.
I wouldn't say that's necessarily true for PvE. The NPCs have such huge amounts of HP that every beam at full power is helpful and with the Sensor Analysis Science ships like the RSV can bring the hurt to NPCs. With the Batteries skill added in the revamped skill tree as well it's not hard to maintain higher power levels on secondary system just by using consumables. Personally I use the RMC, Enhanced Plasma Manifold and Aux batteries and can use one every 60 seconds for between 18 and 28 seconds which is more than enough time for what I need it for and still maintain around 90 Aux at all other times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sardoc
Since you're using Polaron, you can also try a Energy Drain build, but not as great in STFs in my opinion. So I would get GW3, Tractor Beam Repulsors, and some heals for your sci slots. Engineer slots, EPS obviously. Tactical slots, Torpedo Spread (combine with Gravity well, tons of damage in a concentrated area) and Tactical Teams
IMO Science power drains in STFs are amazing at shutting down the big guns but they can leave the ship a little underwhelming at other times as the Tyken's isn't particularly useful outside of hitting the Tac Cubes and Transwarp Gates. Switching BOffs whenever you need a change can really help here though, the addition of the aftershock DOffs just makes them ever more potent.

This is probably the only time I switch to a high Aux power level too (when using Tyken's), the increased drain from the high Aux can really make a difference in how long the systems stay off line.

TBR I've seen a lot of recently and it is helpful as an oh **** button but it also spreads the NPCs all over the map which makes it more time consuming to destroy them.
Although it's helpful at times more often than not it requires a good amount of skill to use at the right time and usually it isn't skilfully used; the amount of times I've hit something with a GW and a Chroniton spread only for a Cruiser to TBR the NPCs out is annoying. It's just as annoying however when I'm on my Tac/ Escort character and someone TBRs the NPCs out of DHC range but that's down to the user rather than the skill and a skilfully used TBR is a nice thing to have around.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
03-25-2012, 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jethro777
I just came from a fascinating STF in which I was using a Recon Science Vessel, Lvl 50 and my Science Captain.

What an embarrassment. Compared to my MVAE or my Hegh'Ta, it was ridiculous. I would very much appreciate some feedback on how to have a constructive Sci / STF build (must survive Elite's really, and serve a useful function - or what is the point?).

My ideal weapon type is Polaron, though AP is also a possibility.

I will update this with the build, as suggestions come in.

SCIENCE - Recon Vessel

Front Weapons

3 x Polaron Beam Arrays

Rear Weapons

2 x Polaron Beam Arrays

Deflector

Borg

Impulse

Borg

Shields

MACO Eventually, but Paratrinic Shield Array until then

Devices

1 x Red Matter Capacitor
1 x Subspace Module

Engineering Slots (2)


Science Slots (4)


Tactical Slots (3)


Bridge Officers

Lt. Tactical
[Slot 1] [Slot 2]

Ensign Tactical
[Slot 1]

Lt. Engineering
[Slot 1] [Slot 2]

Commander Science
[Slot 1] [Slot 2] [Slot 3] [Slot 4]

Lt. Commander Science
[Slot 1] [Slot 2] [Slot 3]
/10 char edit
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
03-25-2012, 06:23 PM
Great feedback, I have updated some of the specifications. Still not too sure of the BO powers with timing and chaining - what should be rigged to run constantly other than EPTS1 & 2? Also the front torpedo type?

And finally, it is not worth trying to run this ship as a beam boat, is it? With six beam arrays and side firing for maximum effect?

Also, the Tractor Beam Launcher, sounds like an interesting addition to this build, as you could trap ships and prevent them from approaching the Kang for instance. How does that sound?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
03-25-2012, 07:25 PM
If you set up EPTS 2 and EPTW 1 with 3 GREEN Damage Control Engineers you can have both up 75+% of the time, allowing you to run high weapons and aux. With other power management tools I run 125/~100/~80/125. 6x Beams is moderately effective with that setup. On my DSSV I run Aux2Sif 1 along side the two emergency powers, which heals for 4950ish every 15 seconds or provides max hull resists for 10 seconds (with consoles). Combined with Borg 3/4 I can go from heavily damaged to fully healed almost instantly, and I can always survive something like Donatra's plasma torpedo spread.

I tried the DBB and 2x torpedo with blue torpedo doffs and didn't like it. There was slightly more damage, but I couldn't tank an elite STF tac cube, or even solo an elite STF cube like I can with 6x beams. Might have been the way I was playing it.
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