Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
03-26-2012, 09:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Thanks for the ideas BUT I did not post my officers because I DID not get to use them - I simply moved towards the enemy, then with LITERALLY 3 hits, my shields were GONE (over 8000 by the way) and my hull as well... which makes NO SENSE AT ALL
The 8,000 on your Shields is meaningless. What's important is what your Shield Power setting is. Going into PvP you're Shield Power should be at around 125 because you've buffed it with your EPtS ability (and are running multiple EPtS abilities so that one is always available. The whole point of BOFF buff is to use them proactively, not use them to fix a problem. And as I said, you're Hull is squishy because you have zero Resistance - the only value you're getting is from the Console Set bonus.

It's not about the weapons. A beam array and DEM can easily cut through shields - especially if you're only running at 50-60 power. So if you have no Hull Resistance there's nothing to stop you from dying.

Quote:
and ALL other forum reads on here and other forums say the AEGIS (all 3 together) is the best shield mix still because of all the benefits... do you know something I don't? The stats for all three are better then any other mix I have found... and I know the science has better stats for some things, but for my style the tactical works better (I am a tactical officer by the way)
The AEGIS is ok but there are other combinations that can benefit you more. The AEGIS is really talking about Shield stacking, which is useless if you're dying in 3 hits.

Quote:
And without the 3 RCS consoles the SHIP does not turn AT ALL... and yes, I use the saucer separation AND the escort - neither lasts very long in PVP so you really do need bother and with the cooldown, having the turn bonus is a necessity...
It's not supposed to turn well. It's a whale. Even with the RCS you're probably only going from 6 to 8. It's wasted console space.

And it is VERY important to know what your Captain skills are. For example, if you have 9 ranks of Stealth you're wasting points. What are your Efficencies? Proficencies? Hull armor boost and repair rates? All of those things are important and need to be at different values depending on the type of ship you're flying.

I'd only echo what athenaX stated. Go read the Dragon flagship thread. Check out some of the tanking threads. The Odyssey is a cruiser and so must be played like a tanking cruiser - even though you might have all your univerals in Tactical.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12 Dude...
03-26-2012, 09:18 PM
Okay... you see my build and worthless or NOT I have 8000+ shields, 42000 hull (which were both full) and THREE hits kills me over and over??? WHAT weapon and buffs do 16666.67 points of damage each!? NONE! Or there should be none... it makes NO SENSE AT ALL... you are missing the point here... something is NOT balanced - I love the ship in PVE and I dominate... I don't even get to use any officer skills or anything before I die - if Starfleet OR in real life if you build a ship like that it would be RECALLED and scraped... I don't know if it is an exploit or a cheat but something is DEAD wrong with that amount of damage in THREE hits...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
03-26-2012, 09:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic_One View Post
The 8,000 on your Shields is meaningless. What's important is what your Shield Power setting is. Going into PvP you're Shield Power should be at around 125 because you've buffed it with your EPtS ability (and are running multiple EPtS abilities so that one is always available. The whole point of BOFF buff is to use them proactively, not use them to fix a problem. And as I said, you're Hull is squishy because you have zero Resistance - the only value you're getting is from the Console Set bonus.

It's not about the weapons. A beam array and DEM can easily cut through shields - especially if you're only running at 50-60 power. So if you have no Hull Resistance there's nothing to stop you from dying.

DUDE, it is about shields and hull = I have 50000+ total points NOTHING should eat thru that is three hits!!! And I run a defensive with 125 shield power (I do some things - I am NOT A NOOB) so the shield setting is MAXED!!!


The AEGIS is ok but there are other combinations that can benefit you more. The AEGIS is really talking about Shield stacking, which is useless if you're dying in 3 hits.


It's not supposed to turn well. It's a whale. Even with the RCS you're probably only going from 6 to 8. It's wasted console space.

And it is VERY important to know what your Captain skills are. For example, if you have 9 ranks of Stealth you're wasting points. What are your Efficencies? Proficencies? Hull armor boost and repair rates? All of those things are important and need to be at different values depending on the type of ship you're flying.

All my captain skills max shield power engine power, and phaser damage... again you are missing the point - are you saying something should be allowed to do 50000 + damage points with THREE hits!?!? No...

I'd only echo what athenaX stated. Go read the Dragon flagship thread. Check out some of the tanking threads. The Odyssey is a cruiser and so must be played like a tanking cruiser - even though you might have all your univerals in Tactical.

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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
03-26-2012, 09:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Okay... you see my build and worthless or NOT I have 8000+ shields, 42000 hull (which were both full) and THREE hits kills me over and over??? WHAT weapon and buffs do 16666.67 points of damage each!? NONE! Or there should be none... it makes NO SENSE AT ALL... you are missing the point here... something is NOT balanced - I love the ship in PVE and I dominate... I don't even get to use any officer skills or anything before I die - if Starfleet OR in real life if you build a ship like that it would be RECALLED and scraped... I don't know if it is an exploit or a cheat but something is DEAD wrong with that amount of damage in THREE hits...
Dude, what I'm telling you is that I have seen an Odyssey tank 4 people attacking him at once in PvP. They did far more then 3 hits each. He didn't die. Since he's using the same Odyssey with 8,000 shields and 42,000 Hull that you are it's obvious the configuration is different. IE, his Skills, BOFFs, and Consoles are different. You're problem is not the ship. It's the build.

And telling me how good you are in PvE is meaningless to PvP. I've seen videos on Youtube where people were playing on elite with no consoles and no BOFFs and still defeating the AI ships. AI ships are stupid. People you are fighting are smart.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
03-26-2012, 09:33 PM
MustrumRidcully has an excellent post on Shield tanking here. Everyone using a Cruiser in PvP should read it.
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Posts: 120
# 16
03-26-2012, 10:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Okay... you see my build and worthless or NOT I have 8000+ shields, 42000 hull (which were both full) and THREE hits kills me over and over??? WHAT weapon and buffs do 16666.67 points of damage each!? NONE! Or there should be none... it makes NO SENSE AT ALL... you are missing the point here... something is NOT balanced - I love the ship in PVE and I dominate... I don't even get to use any officer skills or anything before I die - if Starfleet OR in real life if you build a ship like that it would be RECALLED and scraped... I don't know if it is an exploit or a cheat but something is DEAD wrong with that amount of damage in THREE hits...
To answer your question a Beam Overload III can easily do 8k damage. Further, a High Yield tric crit hit will do well over 42k hull damage. That's just 2 shots. W/o crits BO3 x2 and Tric will do that much damage realiably, your 3 hit kill. Escort Crf can rip through a shield facing and trash an unbuffed hull as well.

If you want strickly defensive gear use 3x borg set and Maco shields. If you're new and the speed of PvP is too much for you to start, over tank so you can get a feel for things. This means chaining Tac Team & EPTS. Use shield distribution doffs and remember to use brace for impact. Get in the habit of distributing your shields and planning turns to avoid full on alphas.

Also, avoid Kerrat and arena matches, stick to capture & hold to start PvPing. It's a decently large map w/people where people are usually spread out.

Believe it or not defense can be so powerfull what I described in the 1st paragraph is often not nearly enough to break any ship w/its defenses up. You'd do well to read the links other posters have provided for you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
03-27-2012, 12:00 AM
Last week i had the same, i attack a Klingon from the side, he turn and shoot me down in under 5 seconds.

Im lvl50 with Multi Vector Ship, i have compled MACO Set XI and i had all my Skills aktivated. (taktik team, shield power, and, and, and)

Thats bring nothing, when come some strange guy.

And he dont use Beam Overload.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
03-27-2012, 01:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Okay... you see my build and worthless or NOT I have 8000+ shields, 42000 hull (which were both full) and THREE hits kills me over and over??? WHAT weapon and buffs do 16666.67 points of damage each!? NONE! Or there should be none... it makes NO SENSE AT ALL... you are missing the point here... something is NOT balanced - I love the ship in PVE and I dominate... I don't even get to use any officer skills or anything before I die - if Starfleet OR in real life if you build a ship like that it would be RECALLED and scraped... I don't know if it is an exploit or a cheat but something is DEAD wrong with that amount of damage in THREE hits...
I fly a Sovreign with 13k of shields, the Odyssey has so much more shield potential than I do. I don't think I would last in PVP as it's built for PVE.

We need more info so we can help you. I pop my EPtS before the enemy are even in range, I have two and keep cycling them..

What was your opponent flying, what type of connection do you have? Laggy means any ship you fly is a space coffin, no matter how well it's built.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArminPlugin
Last week i had the same, i attack a Klingon from the side, he turn and shoot me down in under 5 seconds.

Im lvl50 with Multi Vector Ship, i have compled MACO Set XI and i had all my Skills aktivated. (taktik team, shield power, and, and, and)

Thats bring nothing, when come some strange guy.

And he dont use Beam Overload.
Again what was he flying? I have a Klingon with a Raptor when I decloak and get my timing right I perform what I call the optimal strike where the shields are down and the hull is at 75% before the High Yield Quantum's hit. My opponent is usually dead before he realizes I was there. And if your fighting the Klingons remember that the old guard who have been here since day one are Masters of PVP as the only way Klingons could level was PVP.

The only thing I am exploiting is my opponent's lack of awareness. And to point out I can just as easily do it in the BOP or a Guramba, doing it with a Vor'cha would be near impossible. It's all about knowing the timing.

Here is the most important thing I can say about Random PVP: It is not fair! The original poster is running the Aegis set, I don't know if he runs basic phasers or if he's tasting the rainbow, but if his Opponent is running Lots of Flow Capacitors and Tetryon or Phased Polaron combined with the Omega set shields will dissolve faster than you can blink. Especially if the other guy gets a bit lucky.
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# 19
03-27-2012, 01:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Okay - here is the build:

Odyssey Tactical Cruiser

AEGIS system (All 3 pieces - shield, deflector, engine)

Engineering Consoles: Worker Bee Console, 3 Mark XI RCS accelerators

Science Consoles: Universal Separation Console, Neutronium Mark XI (rare), Field Generator Mark XI (rare, 35% max shield capacity)

Tactical Console: Aqaurius Escort Console, 2 Mark XI Rare Phaser Relays (I run 6 phaser arrays, 3 fore and 3 after (all mark XI rares) with a rare mark XI quantum torp DMGx2 fore and aft
Well first off the big mistake here is the 3 rcs accelerators in the enginnering slots.

second instead of haveing rare (BLUE) MK XI weapons. you should have very rare (Purple) MK XI weapons.

The Aegis set is a great to have (i run the Aegis set myself). But it's not the best for PvP,
IMO if your going to PvP get the Borg set/MACO set/Omega set. any of these will far out do the Aegis set.
Lt. Commander
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# 20
03-27-2012, 01:31 AM
8000 shields...that's all? and 42k hull...you want a problem here...my Assault cruiser has 11k per facing and 52k hull...so you are already too squishy going in. You actually have shield and hull more equal to my escort than my cruiser.

As for the damage you took -- BO2 hits 8-12k easily, B03 12-16k easily. There goes your shield facing. THY will eat your hull like nothing, especially with that little hull.

Deflector, Maco and Borg both add to structural integrity field. Result: More hull. Also sounds like you have no points in SIF skill points, so you already aren't optimized for tanking even elite stf content, which is generally easier than pvp.

It's been requested already in this thread, but we need to know your boff and skill point layouts, not just your equipment, but straight off, you are using subpar gear for a highly competitive field and being surprised that you go boom. RCS consoles on a cruiser. Are. A. Waste. That's all there is to it. You want better turn rates, EPtE and Aux to ID. Aux to SiF and Hazard Emitters and Polarize Hull for heal/resists. Tac Team for shield distribution concerns, especially after taking an alpha strike Engineering team possibly if you really feel you need another burst heal, or sci team (both also useful for clearing VM and SNB respectively).

2 copies of EPtS, 2 copies of EPtX, so you ALWAYS have 2 systems boosted to max. This way you can run max weapons, high to max shields, and high to max engines or auxillary (I prefer aux myself, make Aux to SiF and sci abilities stronger both in terms of heal and resistances).

those 3 consoles from the "pay to win" ody eat up sace that you can be using for: Field Generator (35% shield bonus), Borg Console, Armor Consoles, and if your tac consoles are anything other than weapon boosters you already failed.

The ody is a fine ship, if you take the time to learn to use it. This is very clearly a case of the player expecting an "I win" ship; that does not exist in this game. It is first, middle, and last about the players skill, knowing your counters, knowing your timing, reacting appropriately, knowing the limits of your ship, and a bit of luck.

Or you can stay with your RCS consoles and going into PVP and be food for anyone with Beam Overload and Torp HY. Just remember -- putting lipstick on a pig doesn't change that it's a big. Those RCS Consoles? There goes your lipstick.

Edit: Adding info for the hell of it.

You are so impressed with your 8k shields and 42k hull, and can't believe they go down that quickly. As an Eng captain, I've pulled off 32-40k full buffed overload 3s in my Fleet Escort. If I catch you bare hull with that, that's pretty much your whole integrity right there, with a quantum torp volley coming in right behind it. 8k shields = 8 shots from a DHC. Since people run 3 DHC up front, CRF + 3DHC pretty much just destroyed your shields in 1-2seconds. And then you have that beautiful overload/hy combo coming in, while the DHC are still hammering you. Result -- One more dead Ody.

Just for comparative purposes: no armor consoles, and since you've given us no skill points for your defense/resistances rating, and your AEGIS isn't getting much time to proc, you have 42k hull, we'll be nice and say you get some AEGIS procs, giving you around 46k effective hull rating.

Now compare that (JUST the hull ratings right now, since we can see the values for that, not have to estimate like with shields); your 46k effective hull rating (which is about 1/2 of what a good alpha strike will do for unmitigated damage) in comparison to (and I'm not bragging, I can only use my own ship for comparison) my Assault Cruisers 52k hull ratings. With a constant 50-60% resistance...giving me closer to 70k effective hull rating (its nearly 5am, someone else feel free to work out the math).

So just repeating once more -- you are undergeared, underprepared, and underpowered for pvp with your current setup.
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