Go Back   Star Trek Online > Feedback > PvP Gameplay
Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
03-28-2012, 05:19 PM
Well, I think it's a tricky kind of cycle. You don't need the consoles to kill your average Fed who has only the most basic (at best) understanding of how to play and how to build their ships. Against a group of Feds who know what they are doing and bring stuff like FAW (among other things) might drive an otherwise great player to use FAWscorts to abuse the 100% accuracy in conjunction with the cannon blind spot.

I'm not saying the BoP is worthless but it has lost it's edge at a time when Fed ships have less innate variability but more static options.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
03-28-2012, 05:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihilan
I disagree entirely. In one day in my Hegh'Ta I make more kills than most of these console abusers made individually all week. En mass is a different matter, as I state. Granted I will sometimes work in tandem with another Klingon or maybe two but mostly I fly solo. I don't need the consoles to get kills and so I think to claim that in using them Klingons fix an inherent game imbalance is untrue. That sounds a bit too much like "justification" to me. You know, the stuff we try to tell ourselves to hide from a deeper truth.

Edit: Fair enough I am talking about Ker'rat rather than arena. I prefer Ker'rat as there my success is determined more by MY efforts than my teammates' as it were.
i think i have to agree with Rafeism, i am sure the Bop is fine in kerrat blowing up farmers but in an Pvp arena match against a ok premade the bop hurts the team more then it helps imo.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
03-28-2012, 05:35 PM
i will agree with the last few posts.

the bop has almost lost its place, and it is a very hard ship to fly. hats off to those that can make it work....i think i still pull my tac bop off alright. she's nothing compared to a defiant, mvam, or fleet escort tho.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
03-28-2012, 05:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainHorizon
i will agree with the last few posts.

the bop has almost lost its place, and it is a very hard ship to fly. hats off to those that can make it work....i think i still pull my tac bop off alright. she's nothing compared to a defiant, mvam, or fleet escort tho.
As a relative novice I will bow to your greater experience regarding the BoP. Am I then to take it that, considering the topic at hand, you are implying that, because the BoP is actually underpowered we Klingon pilots are right to spam endless broken consoles and when challenged by the Feds regarding balance, claim superior skill as the source of our victory?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
03-28-2012, 05:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHale View Post
I'm not saying the BoP is worthless but it has lost it's edge at a time when Fed ships have less innate variability but more static options.
Mh, it's this really. Time and again I've found myself going back to my federation fleet escort because the ship is simply better at what it does. Tricky to fly, but still forgiving, like an ol' P38 or something. I still feel the bird of prey has a niche, but it's not in arena battles. It's a ship that needs a pilot who's willing to maneuver and force turning duels with opponents and isn't willing to fight fair and has the tools to do it. Battle cloak is a great way to end a fight that you've gotten out of position in but haven't quite gotten to the point where your enemy zoom-and-booms you. You're an A6M, fly like one.

And really, the prevalence of FAW weilding fed balls have made aceton assimilators mandatory, not as any kind of weapon but as a countermeasure of what would otherwise be a swift and painful death. If they didn't drain or do damage or anything I'd still carry them. The other consoles are nice, but cripple your support consoles, and are probably still overpowered even so.

One neutronium more or less didn't seem very important until I ran afoul of a fed ace (This is rather rare, sadly because of how numerous the UFP are) running a rather awkward DEM1 and BO2 on his fleetscort. I hadn't seen anything like this before and I figured it was kind of funny he had an offensive engineering skill on an escort, right up until he zapped my wingman right through his shields for 49,000 hull damage, instantly destroying him. Then did the same to me a while later on two occassions, until I figured I pretty much had to subnuke him on a merge or die instantly. All in all a pretty bad design for anything but BoP hunting, but hell, why not when you can one-shot them right?

On the topic of skill, I'd say it's true actually in Ker'rat, because of the lowest common denominator. Just look at the threads, there are feds who honestly go to Ker'rat not knowing it's a PVP zone. Yet, the people who queue for Arenas are often at least of some degree of experience, and it shows. I'd agree there.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
03-28-2012, 05:57 PM
I've tried to say that the BoP was falling behind the other ships ingame for a while but gave up saying when the standard response was always Horsecrap thier OP from those feds whom refused to believe it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
03-28-2012, 06:10 PM
The issue I am trying to raise is not about how sub par the BoP is, that was pretty much covered in that "other thread", rather that we like to bandy about the notion of superior skill when a closer reality would be that our success is 5% skill and 95% console spam. (Arbitrary statistics pulled out of my arse for effect). We love to beat the Feds about the head with the truth that we aren't OP, just better than them but in this we are failing to accept that in actuality it's just that our consoles are better than theirs and we use them A LOT.

I understand the point being made about FAW, I guess I didn't realise it was only the Fed version that was broken. (Tongue firmly in cheek).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
03-28-2012, 06:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihilan
I understand the point being made about FAW, I guess I didn't realise it was only the Fed version that was broken. (Tongue firmly in cheek).
I've always felt that Feds ought to have Aceton assimilators too.

You just rarely see any klingon beamscorts.

And you're right though, klingons in general are absolutely NOT 'skilled', just... Well, the lowest common denominator bar is a little higher because they're mostly alt characters due to being unlockable. That makes them ever so slightly more tolerable to play IMHO because you're less likely to run afoul of an ally in a Rainbow Galol-X that doesn't redistribute shields or run any copies of EPTS whatsoever.

Which is my own fault for Pugging I guess.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
03-28-2012, 06:22 PM
Faw/Tet glider/Phaser changes have made things much more difficult for the BoP. But, imo too many try and fly it like an escort and attempt to go toe to toe or worse stay for prolonged periods of time in a Fedball environment.

I think there's some untapped teamplay potential with them. As a hypothetical a couple of the BoPs could EWP the support ships while another BoP TBRs the target away w/DPS ff support. All 5 could each PSW a seperate ship while turning their fire on a single target. Brels can launch a torp to knock 1 of the rear ships out of Full Impulse while another does the same to a forward ship, helping to devide the Fedball up. The issue is pulling stuff like this off w/o dieing to FaW/Tetglider/Phasers, which the squishier BoPs have a tough time surviving atm.

As far as consoles go, I still get hit w/AMS fairly often and the KDF x-over grav console. I'd rather players encourge the Devs to fix the broken counters (to both abilities and consoles) rather then do things like whine about a long overdue adjustment to the 35% console (off subject, but still this annoys me).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
03-28-2012, 06:25 PM
I don't think that the two are mutually exclusive. There are lots of really great players using really awful skills that they know damned good and well to be broken (on both sides). By the same token, there are some really awful players abusing those same skills to improve their performance. As with any other issue that eventually got addressed (most recently MACO Shielding and the 90% damage reduction) the latter category of players will adapt or disappear all over again. The first group might have a hiccup along the way but they'll still be better.

Anyone can justify the abuse of a broken mechanic. Anything from "they started it" to "I bought it, it's mine to use" is thrown all about.

To be clear, anyone can be great flying whichever faction they chose (or both as many have shown). It's ultimately a matter of how hard they are willing to work, to learn, to excel. I think that the KDF has historically had the skill edge. Some of that has eroded with F2P and the consoles but that doesn't mean that all of the KDF is a bunch of over powered exploitative punks. Some are, but not all.

Anyway, rambling ftw!
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:23 PM.