Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
03-30-2012, 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_Trainor
I agree on this point, Kerrat is a mess and I could care less what people do or do not do in there.

That's why I think the best solution is for the Kerrat to be put back to haw it was before.
Heh, I'd rather they fixed everything that was wrong with it - lol, I'm too tired to type out the list again - it's not long, but it's been typed out so many damn times.

It's a tough one in regard to the Arenas/C&H though - you'd have to remove any reward to keep folks from AFKing them. Even if you pulled the Dil, some folks might still do it for the little bit of EC.

If there's a reward for something, somebody will try to AFK the reward.

Which is kind of funny, because we basically fire and forget (AFK) with the DOFF system.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
03-30-2012, 09:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_Trainor
All afk'ers that are afking in the situation I hilighted are, I believe, a part of the demographic I am targeting, yes.

AGAIN: All pve'ers are not the afk'er problem, but all afk'ers in a PVP arena are pve'ers.

It's not rocket science.
your right, its not, but it doesn't have to be because you said it yourself you Believe. You don't know for certain.

My Oldest believes that if he gets in his turn outs left foot first he will have a bad call. Is it true, I doubt it. But every call he runs to, his right foot goes in the boots first, its the way he must have it, because of his belief.

I can't and wont change what you believe but I can try to assist you to get the message out in a way that will get a lot more support and avoid un needed problems. It is up to you to take the help. If you want to believe that is is only PVE that does it, I can't change that but I can say you will get more grief from that statement than you want and it will drown out your message.

That is all i'm saying, change the message some and watch the difference
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
03-30-2012, 10:18 AM
This thread is not concerned with afking in stf's (I have never encountered an afk'er in an stf, by the way, touch wood)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuui View Post
Seriously IF you would stop being an elitist for a second and read what I'm saying, I support you, but without the generalization because its just not needed.
with that Generalization it is ALL PVP that AFK in STF's Since they must have the best gear. After all no SERIOUS STF'er worth his salt would ever do that, they wouldn't want to lose face....
do you see how ridiculous that sounds?
Dodging the ad hominum comment, no, what you stated doens't sound ridiculous to me. No serious stf'er would afk in an stf. Just as no serious pvp'er would afk in an arena.
Though I think what you are trying to say is that by my logic that anybody afking in an stf is a pvp'er because they are not stf'ers which is pve. But I would counter that with not all pve'ers are stf'ers. I would actually consider the elite stf'ers closer to pvp'ers than regular pve'ers.

Quote:
your right, its not, but it doesn't have to be because you said it yourself you Believe. You don't know for certain.
Of course I don't know for certain, but being a regular pvp'er I believe my belief on this is pretty accurate.
Do you PvP?


Quote:
I can't and wont change what you believe but I can try to assist you to get the message out in a way that will get a lot more support and avoid un needed problems. It is up to you to take the help. If you want to believe that is is only PVE that does it, I can't change that but I can say you will get more grief from that statement than you want and it will drown out your message.
To be fair, the only person causing problems here is you, and it's because I believe you have misinterpreted my intent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer
It's not a logical conclusion either though.
The gist of what you're saying is that anybody that is PvPing for Dil is not actually PvPing - they are participating in PvE and thus are PvEers.
I'm saying that anybody afking in an arena for dilithium is a pve'er, because they aren't pvp'ers. I've got no problem with people that don't pvp regularly playing arenas for their dilithium, so long as they do something.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
03-30-2012, 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_Trainor
I'm saying that anybody afking in an arena for dilithium is a pve'er, because they aren't pvp'ers. I've got no problem with people that don't pvp regularly playing arenas for their dilithium, so long as they do something.
That's assuming that PvPers would not AFK.

There are people that do both PvP and PvE - yet do not AFK.
There are people that do both PvP and PvE - yet AFK both.

It's basically a case that pretty much everybody's fine with "attacking" the AFKers; but when you're labeling a person that AFKs in PvP as a PvEer - then you're also attacking PvEers... which gets into the PvP vs. PvE discussions (which I find funny, because for folks that supposedly hate PvP - they sure do spend a lot of time involved in Forum PvP discussing that topic - lol).

I wouldn't call a person that is AFK in an Arena a PvEers. I'd call them an AFKer. I have no idea if they're an avid PvPer, PvEer, or if they enjoy both - however, I do know that they're AFKing and they need to GTFO or do something to contribute.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
03-30-2012, 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_Trainor
All afk'ers that are afking in the situation I hilighted are, I believe, a part of the demographic I am targeting, yes.

AGAIN: All pve'ers are not the afk'er problem, but all afk'ers in a PVP arena are pve'ers.

It's not rocket science.
./facepalm..you are right...rocket science wouldn't contradict itself.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
03-30-2012, 10:33 AM
I still don't really get how this is an attack on pve'ers, but from the reaction so far, it seems I'm the only one who doesn't see it.
So if it will make people feel better I will change pve to afk in the OP.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 27
03-30-2012, 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_Trainor
This thread is not concerned with afking in stf's (I have never encountered an afk'er in an stf, by the way, touch wood)
It is concerned with the problem behavior of AFKing. Which we both agree is just wrong. be it PVP or STF, it is wrong. I am grouping both together to get a LARGER consensus of players who agree to present a larger front to the DEV team that something needs to be done. I am attempting to bring more folks to the issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_Trainor
Of course I don't know for certain, but being a regular pvp'er I believe my belief on this is pretty accurate.
Do you PvP?
Yet you claimed it for fact. See there is the problem, I also see you've edited your post to reflect you don't mean all PVE players, which is good, THAT sir, was my goal. take that out, get more folks on your side, get a larger group to go to Cryptic with. Like I said, I'm attempting to help you here, I want you to have the tools you need to enjoy your game.

As far as my PVP, I stopped ages ago. I play a healer, and as such tend to rely on my team mates to help protect me as I heal them. Unfortunately That was not the case more oft than not and I tired of it. Using Einsteins Definition of insanity, I stopped repeated the actions expecting it to change, because it didn't.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_Trainor
To be fair, the only person causing problems here is you, and it's because I believe you have misinterpreted my intent.
your intent, was to get your problem out, I can see that, I was attempting to help you avoid something you didn't need. If I'm a problem, then you must look at the cause of said problem. That would be what you said, your generalization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_Trainor
I'm saying that anybody afking in an arena for dilithium is a pve'er, because they aren't pvp'ers. I've got no problem with people that don't pvp regularly playing arenas for their dilithium, so long as they do something.
and as you've admitted you don't know that for 100% it is a guess, based off a belief. SO once again, the generalization which isn't needed comes up. All I'm saying is you aren't helping get your own message out by using the generalization. Nothing more nothing less.

The problem, folks AFK, Be it PVP or STF, it isn't cool, it's a growing issue. and its one we both agree needed to be addressed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
03-30-2012, 10:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenor-Nyiad View Post
./facepalm..you are right...rocket science wouldn't contradict itself.
It's poorly worded and must have got muddled somewhere between first and second draft, it should read:
All pve'ers are not afk'ers, but all afk'ers in a PVP arena are pve'ers.
Which isn't contradictory at all.


That said, we're past that point now. The thread was never an attack on pve'ers and was never intended to degenerate into a pve vs pvp thread.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
03-30-2012, 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer
That's assuming that PvPers would not AFK.

There are people that do both PvP and PvE - yet do not AFK.
Just because someone does PvP does not mean they are a PvP-er. I do PvE, but do not identify as a PvE-er, I am a PvPer. (BTW, this does not make me better and a PvE-er, just different.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
03-30-2012, 10:43 AM
Think of it this way. All squares (someone who AFK's in a PvP match) are rectangles (PvE'ers) but not all rectangles (PvE'ers) are squares (AFK's in a PvP Match).

You can't enter a PvP match without hitting the accept button. PvP'ers are individuals who play STO primarily for the PvP and do PvE to get gear (STF sets which are easier to acquire by completing the optionals in STFS) or energy credits (again from STFs completing the optional gets you more gear to sell). Quite simply, they don't queue up to farm dilithium otherwise they would not fit the definition of a PvP'er as quite frankly, you don't need dilithium really to deck out a ship for PvP. A PvE'er is someone who plays STO primarily for the PvE content and PvPs casually or have no interest in PvP other than 1) accolade hunting or 2) Dilithium.

It is a logical conclusion to conclude that individuals who AFK entire Arenas/CnH 3 times a day are not PvP'ers but in fact PvE'ers. As for STF AFKs, well more than likely they are PvE'ers as PvP'ers are there to get the rewards from completing the optionals.

But I digress from the topic.

AFK'ers in Arena's and CnH maps are a problem. It ruins the experience for at least one team.
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