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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 61
04-06-2012, 06:55 AM
Much like Corgatag, this thread has enticed me to try a beam boat build. Before I sink the resources I need Sharpphasor's explanation on the Boff skills used and their rotations; the required Doffs for this build to be viable, some dogfighting tips to maintain DPS and an affirmitave answer on the question of the 6 or 8 beam issue

Thanks,
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 62
04-06-2012, 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmoeJoe
please join organizedpvp chat channel in game and ask aorund for a 1v1. you will not wait long to find one wholl accept your challenge. despite your mit genius, you may find there are many more factors involved in pvp than shear dps and rsp....

gl hf
I want to see some screencaps when this challenge gets accepted!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 63
04-08-2012, 02:01 PM
Has the combat log parser been removed from sourceforge?
I cant find it anywhere.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 64
04-08-2012, 07:22 PM
I cannot find it either. Guess cannot find out DPS without it :-(
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 65
04-09-2012, 04:59 AM
Been looking for this too.

Seems like it was made by a member of the "Synergy fleet"
per this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Txyovte6vaQ
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 66
04-09-2012, 08:12 AM
Ok sorry for the noobie question here but by all beam does that mean all dual beams or all regular beam arrays on the escort?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 67
04-09-2012, 03:30 PM
This may be buried, but there's a few dynamics that everyone has been tossing around already that probably should be codified.

First, the OP makes some good points, namely:

1) It's impossible to know how well you compare to others without the CombatLogParser or feeding the CombatLog through a spreadsheet.

2)If you are looking for nothing but DPS, then then the equipment you're wearing should reflect that. (Namely OMEGA force)

That being said, DPS calculators actually do not calculate your skill and do not reflect how "good" your build is. The reason for this is the nature of how buffs, debuffs, and boff slots work in STO.

Here's an easy example:

2 Escorts are shooting at something. One uses his commander slot for Attack Pattern Beta 3 (APB3), the other for Cannon Rapid Fire 3 (CRF3).

APB3 debuffs the target's dmg resistance by 50 (max attack pattern). This helps both escorts do dmg.
CRF3 increases your attack speed by 50% (50% more DPS for 10 sec). This only helps the escort with the ability.

The escort with APB3 will do less DPS than the other escort, if however, you were to take the dmg difference they both would have done without APB3 it would be clear that APB3 was as a whole, more useful. Additionally, 2 APB3s would have resulted in an even higher dmg increase between both escorts.

tl;dr You can get a bigger DPS value than your team mates just by being cleverly selfish and taking a self-buff while they take debuffs.


The other thing I want to mention is that damage is relative.
That is to say, your total damage will be a result of the # of debuffs that are thrown on your target and the # of buffs you can activate on yourself. A team with 5 APB3s stacking on a target will result in higher DPS for everyone, but on your own you'd never get anywhere near those values.

As such what you want to look at is the % dmg difference between you and everyone else.
i.e. The top DPSer did 20% more dmg than you. Why? And are you OK with that?

I'd also like to point out that while dps is a critical metric for being competitive,players should make their build around a role, rather than around their dps.

As an escort you may decide that you're willing to lose 10% of your DPS to reliably kill a Cube solo. As such you'd drop OMEGA and pick up 3-piece Borg.
Why would you? Because if you don't run with a premade group with a tank then you can't depend on your random team every time. You may decide that the DPS loss if preferable to getting aggro and dying every cube.

If you're a science vessel or cruiser however, what you're probably looking for is only a DPS that is relevant to the fight. A cruiser may .. for example, be soley concerned with getting enough DPS to hold aggro off the escorts, in which case, that is what their DPS goals should be and that should be reflected in their boff ability selection and build.

Finally, looking at everyone post their e-peens on this thread, it's clear that the DPS #s are skewed not only because of group composition and # of debuffs/buffs in each report, but also because people tend to either log DPS for an entire STF or a major fight, like the Tactical Cube.

The DPS for an entire STF
is a poor metric to determine how well you're doing because many STFs have gimmicks and roles that will skew the numbers.
As an example, a Kang defender will likely have more DPS than the cube attackers in Cure Space Elite (CSE) because he's free to AoE a steady stream of BoPs.

DPS for a major fight, like the Tactical cube, is better but should also be taken with a grain of salt.
People tend to hit their long cooldown abilities for this fight (especially if they're logging themselves). Tacticals will hit every button, Science will summon their holograms, etc.

If the fight only lasts a significant portion of these buff durations, then the numbers that you'll see from DPS meter is not your sustained DPS. That doesn't mean it's not important, but keep in mind it's not something that you'll achieve against a sufficiently hardy target.

two side notes:
1)Assuming a sufficiently long fight. Cannons are superior to beams because:
a) Cannon abilities are far superior, as they affect all cannons/turrets on your ship for 10 seconds while beams only affect 1 beam for 1 attack (Overload) or all beams for 1 volley (Fire at Will). Additionally beams do not have an AoE that's useable as AoE DPS.

b) Base Beam dps only wins out against cannons till ~5KM, at which point Cannons (Dual) start to pull ahead.

2) I would never build any DPS build for single target. The only STF where killing the boss in record time matters is ISE, and that STF is considered to be the easiest to obtain the optional. As such speccing to have the highest time remaining on the optional is just an excercise in theory and your e-peen.

For all other STFs, by the time you get to the boss, you're done with the optional, so DPS builds should be more geared toward the utility of AoE to increase the efficiency of obtaining the optional.

Oh... and here is a link to Combat Log Parser. I would recommend you all use version 0.1 as 0.2 often has display problems.

The Parser does accurately display mines, photonic fleet, and all spawned source projectiles (Heavy Plasma & Tricobalt Torpedoes) as part of the spawner's DPS. If you'd like to do it manually, you can "Credit Damage by Source" by right clicking on the combat in question and selecting the option.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 68
04-09-2012, 04:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekental View Post
Oh... and here is a link to Combat Log Parser. I would recommend you all use version 0.1 as 0.2 often has display problems.
Are you the author of that application?

I know the original poster for this thread is not.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 69
04-09-2012, 04:38 PM
I am not, AFAIK the author has long since moved onto different games and better things.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 70
04-09-2012, 06:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekental View Post
two side notes:
1)Assuming a sufficiently long fight. Cannons are superior to beams because:
a) Cannon abilities are far superior, as they affect all cannons/turrets on your ship for 10 seconds while beams only affect 1 beam for 1 attack (Overload) or all beams for 1 volley (Fire at Will). Additionally beams do not have an AoE that's useable as AoE DPS.

b) Base Beam dps only wins out against cannons till ~5KM, at which point Cannons (Dual) start to pull ahead.

2) I would never build any DPS build for single target. The only STF where killing the boss in record time matters is ISE, and that STF is considered to be the easiest to obtain the optional. As such speccing to have the highest time remaining on the optional is just an excercise in theory and your e-peen.

For all other STFs, by the time you get to the boss, you're done with the optional, so DPS builds should be more geared toward the utility of AoE to increase the efficiency of obtaining the optional.
Gah! Your well-reasoned arguments are giving me cold feet! (I was planning on trying out a beam escort build for one of my alts since I already have five running the standard 3DHC-1Torp build.)
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