Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
04-02-2012, 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
Who's talking about removing content? All old content takes place "in the past."

I'm just ready for the storyline to progress.
Now that I can agree on.
Stop using the borg as the main villian and move on to more Undine, Iconian, etc villians and endgame content.

Of course it would be nice if they tied up some loose ends along the way.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
04-02-2012, 12:52 PM
I think the Borg are overused. between the Tutorial, the leveling missions, the STFs, the Red Alerts, exploration, and Foundry Authors, both the Borg and the Undine are far too frequently encountered.

The Borg are invading alternate universes, they have campaigns assimilating other Galactic Clusters, they are likely expanding into the Gamma Quadrant and further into the Delta Quadrant as well. The Borg are on the move..

..But not all their moves are in the Alpha Quadrant.

And so we shouldn't be seeing them in the Alpha Quadrant quite as often as we are. The Borg leveling missions should be replaced by endgame missions focused on the War between the Federation and the Klingon Empire, they should be taken out of the Exploration missions entirely, and the STFs should be reveled to being VA only. And when we do see them, it should be an OMG moment.

We should more than likely lose. Alternate mission paths, buffed Borg (none of these puny Borg, a Probe should be like the Spheres are now, the Spheres like Tactical Cubes, and the "normal" Cubes should be near-invincible, and if a Tac Cube comes in? You run, you don't fight, or hesitate, you run) come in, a single player has virtually no hope, when the player is disabled, the Borg win, they assimilate the planet/colony/base/station whatever they came for. We get engines back online, and retreat. 2 or more players have a chance, if they're tough enough, skilled enough, they can stop the Borg, but it's only a temporary reprieve, they'll be back, eventually.

But it shouldn't be an expected occurrence, it shouldn't be an every hour or so event like the Red Alerts, or a daily event, but something the Devs arbitrarily pop in every random few weeks, attacking Vulcan, SB39, Ganalda, DS9, or Drozana (DS9 and Drozana are faction nuetral events, GPL rewards for saving Drozana). The rarest should be attacks on Qo'Nos and Earth, but when those happen.. The Borg aren't messing around.

The "rarification" of the Borg should be balanced by every Borg encounter (not just the STFs), every Borg ship destroyed has the chance to drop EDCs and Rare Borg Salvage.

-

The Undine should be given similar treatment, no single player (even with their Boffs) should be able to take down an Undine on the Ground. It should take at least two Captains to take down any Undine ship in space. Their missions should be replaced with investigations into Founder Activity on this side of the Wormhole, they should be removed from the Exploration zones, and the early missions should always have the Undine win.

To balance this "rarification", the Undine STF should be completed and re-introduced, and two or three more Undine STFs should be created, the Undine should also drop items (DNA fragments and Tissue Samples) that can be used by Biotech experts to create Biotechnological equipment (mostly Consoles based off fusions of Undine DNA and BioNeural gelpack technology, with a few anti-Undine Nanotech weapons thrown in too).

There should also be Undine invasions and infiltration missions with the same rarities of the Borg invasions.

the answer to Villain Decay isn't to make them weaker and just say we've matched them, it's to rarefy encounters with them and make them terrifying again.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
04-02-2012, 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katic View Post
I think the Borg are overused. between the Tutorial, the leveling missions, the STFs, the Red Alerts, exploration, and Foundry Authors, both the Borg and the Undine are far too frequently encountered.

The Borg are invading alternate universes, they have campaigns assimilating other Galactic Clusters, they are likely expanding into the Gamma Quadrant and further into the Delta Quadrant as well. The Borg are on the move..

..But not all their moves are in the Alpha Quadrant..
Not all of their moves are in the Alpha Quadrant, but they were on their way there and had a major fleet there approx 36 years prior to the start of STO. There are no indications they were significantly weakened, and every indication that Star Fleet had been losing more ships and resources to them than the Borg had lost (as indicated by Picard's 'we fall back' rant).

If anything, the fact that a stalemate has been achieved is a miracle.

And they aren't involved in every plot. They weren't part of The 2800, for instance.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
04-02-2012, 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmera
Not all of their moves are in the Alpha Quadrant, but they were on their way there and had a major fleet there approx 36 years prior to the start of STO. There are no indications they were significantly weakened, and every indication that Star Fleet had been losing more ships and resources to them than the Borg had lost (as indicated by Picard's 'we fall back' rant).

If anything, the fact that a stalemate has been achieved is a miracle.

And they aren't involved in every plot. They weren't part of The 2800, for instance.
I'm not saying they're involved everywhere, just that we're seeing them far too often, and defeating them too easily (in-game), and that both of those should be corrected. The Borg should be rare encounters, and difficult to survive, not just-another-enemy. Same with the Undine.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
04-02-2012, 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katic View Post
I'm not saying they're involved everywhere, just that we're seeing them far too often, and defeating them too easily (in-game), and that both of those should be corrected. The Borg should be rare encounters, and difficult to survive, not just-another-enemy. Same with the Undine.
Agreed. Personally, if it had been me crafting the story, I'd have waited until an expansion to release Borg content. Maybe hint at their return on occasion. Maybe find entire colonies scooped up out of the ground, or something.

The Borg were done very poorly in STO

Just sort of seems like Cryptic excels at The Half-@$$.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 46
04-02-2012, 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmera
There are no indications they were significantly weakened, and every indication that Star Fleet had been losing more ships and resources to them than the Borg had lost (as indicated by Picard's 'we fall back' rant).
You might want to watch Voyager finale.

Battle for Sector 001 was in 2373, Battle of Wolf 359 was just 6 years before ... Voyager Finale was in 78, the line you are quoting was said 5 years before Voyager destroyed the Unicomplex.

The problem is the Borg fans just want the Wolf 359 status quo to maintain, that is impossible as Voyager pretty much ends the Borg with the finale, not to mention Species 8472 proved not only being capable of resisting their assimilation but counter-attacking in such a way the Borg were of the verge of defeat.

Also it would be maintained, the Borg "adapt" but dont seem to be capable of evolving, if the Federation is allowed the time they will be able to deal with the Borg, we can see that in the 6 years from Wolf 359 to Sector 001 Battle the Federation developed ships capable of defeating a Borg Cube ... the Borg need to assimilate to evolve, the Federation does not.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 47
04-02-2012, 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprint01
Agreed. Personally, if it had been me crafting the story, I'd have waited until an expansion to release Borg content. Maybe hint at their return on occasion. Maybe find entire colonies scooped up out of the ground, or something.

The Borg were done very poorly in STO

Just sort of seems like Cryptic excels at The Half-@$$.
I can agree that they probably should have been brought in later rather than right at the tutorial, but they weren't. The setting and context are that we are in the middle of a full scale war with the Borg.

This isn't all that unlikely given everything set in motion right from the first contact with the Borg via Q through the First Contact movie (with them being brought into Voyager and Enterprise for good measure).

I am not sure Cryptic is to blame so much as the canon writers for setting this all up without resolving the Borg war rather than some ridiculous plot regarding Remus having a large native slave population that somehow no one really knew about and was never an issue in Unification or politically with respect to Romulan/Federation relations.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 48
04-02-2012, 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Autistic_Cucoo
The Borg have been around for thousands of years IIRC, I'm pretty sure they've overcome bigger obstacles than the Alpha Quadrant powers. They haven't been scary for a long time, though. Voyager and FC did all they could to turn the menacing borg into bumbling space vampires. I don't really find that scary at all

Seriously though, the Borg sure are overused. I wouldn't mind another big bad for STFs and sector incursions.
I don't think so they have been around for thousand years any the real bad guys are the Iconian.

I don't want the borg to go away as I want my assimuleted transwarp engines and other borgy ship stuff.

I wouuld mind seeing another playable race like the Romulans perhaps.

^Before that happens I want our Feds relations with the Klingons to return.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 49
04-02-2012, 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron
You might want to watch Voyager finale.

Also it would be maintained, the Borg "adapt" but dont seem to be capable of evolving, if the Federation is allowed the time they will be able to deal with the Borg, we can see that in the 6 years from Wolf 359 to Sector 001 Battle the Federation developed ships capable of defeating a Borg Cube ... the Borg need to assimilate to evolve, the Federation does not.
The Borg use a lot of redundant systems. It is a safe bet that the Queen would be recreated shortly after bring destroyed. We know the pathogen was not absolute or a sphere wouldn't have had a shot on taking out Voyager.

Hugh didn't convert all the Borg either, just a few of them (although I still think Hugh was responsible for the Borg Queen existing at all).

The Borg's need to assimilate is to some extent an assumption. They can and do adapt to new tactics in the field, or else shifting frequencies would always work. It is unreasonable to assume that none of the races they have assimilated are strong on creativity.

Having ships capable of defeating Borg ships does not equate to victory, either. The Federation have ships capable of defeating Dominion ships, but still had to resort to bio warfare against the Founders via Section 31 in order to win that war. If the Borg are in the Alpha quadrant, it means they have already exploited their way here, and assimilated pretty much everything on the way. That is rather a lot of resources to overcome.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 50
04-02-2012, 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virgilpluton999
I thought the Undine were the big bad in STO, was I wrong?

Edit: Or maybe even the Iconian?
In October an Iconian STF is supposed tk come as well as the Iconians being the next baddy.
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