Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 61
04-02-2012, 07:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by P_Sutherland
i dont want to compete againts 20 people for the stupid loot.
Er... That would be a worst case scenario for that wouldn't it?

I was thinking STF loot system, FA size encounter.

I think the two playstyles need to merge anyway.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 62
04-02-2012, 08:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
The Queen is unique.
Yes, she is, but her technology is shared by the entire Collective, and basic cognitive abilities are the result of the minds of the entire collective working together.

The way I think of the Collective is actually not so much as one mind in many bodies insomuch as many minds being collectively acted upon by singular mind (the Queen). When the collective told "7 of 9, Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix Zero One" to activate and act as the representative of the Collective to Janeway, it's wasn't the entire Collective doing so, but that portion of the Collective tasked (by the Queen) to work with Voyager towards defeating Species 8472 (the Undine).

The Queen brings order to chaos by directing, subdividing, and organizing the collective (small c) minds and body Collective (big C). It's not that the subdivisions of the Collective are incapable of reasoning on their own, merely that if allowed their own initiative, the Collective (big C) will begin to fracture as different divisions disagree and begin working towards disparate ends.

The Queen maintains and enforces unity, cohesion, direction, and purpose, at times supplanting her own thoughts directly into the subdivisions she directs, but always to the singular purpose of expansion with the intent to develop perfection.

In this way, she acts as the Collective, she is the will of the entirety , the binding agent, the web holding them together. She is the Collective, and she acts upon herself in furtherance of her goals.

This is a role she is "born" to, built, from her genetic code to her cybernetic components, to act as the guiding force of the Borg. There is only ever One active, but there are others held unactivated, in stasis, ready to activate and take over the moment control and cohesion is lost.

It's my belief that the neurolytic pathogen Adm. Janeway used disrupted her control of the Collective, causing another Queen (or possibly even several other Queens, if communication was disrupted beyond the primary Unicomplex) to activate, which is why the Queen in the primary Unicomplex had trouble re-establishing control, different parts of the Borg had been usurped and their control transferred to another Queen, or the entire Collective divided amongst several. Until the pecking order could be re-established and a singular Queen decided upon as a replacement, most of the Collective blocked the old Queen like a good e-mail service blocks Spam, they saw her as a Trojan Queen.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 63
04-02-2012, 09:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Autistic_Cucoo
The Borg have been around for thousands of years IIRC, I'm pretty sure they've overcome bigger obstacles than the Alpha Quadrant powers. They haven't been scary for a long time, though. Voyager and FC did all they could to turn the menacing borg into bumbling space vampires. I don't really find that scary at all

Seriously though, the Borg sure are overused. I wouldn't mind another big bad for STFs and sector incursions.
This, I agree with. I love the borg but I think the over use of them kinda ruins them for me.

Personally, I think we need an STF (or at least FE) that focuses on the KDF/Fed war.

I think it's about time we get some kinda of closure of where this war is headed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 64
04-03-2012, 12:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katic View Post
I think the Borg are overused. between the Tutorial, the leveling missions, the STFs, the Red Alerts, exploration, and Foundry Authors, both the Borg and the Undine are far too frequently encountered.

The Borg are invading alternate universes, they have campaigns assimilating other Galactic Clusters, they are likely expanding into the Gamma Quadrant and further into the Delta Quadrant as well. The Borg are on the move..

..But not all their moves are in the Alpha Quadrant.

And so we shouldn't be seeing them in the Alpha Quadrant quite as often as we are. The Borg leveling missions should be replaced by endgame missions focused on the War between the Federation and the Klingon Empire, they should be taken out of the Exploration missions entirely, and the STFs should be reveled to being VA only. And when we do see them, it should be an OMG moment.

We should more than likely lose. Alternate mission paths, buffed Borg (none of these puny Borg, a Probe should be like the Spheres are now, the Spheres like Tactical Cubes, and the "normal" Cubes should be near-invincible, and if a Tac Cube comes in? You run, you don't fight, or hesitate, you run) come in, a single player has virtually no hope, when the player is disabled, the Borg win, they assimilate the planet/colony/base/station whatever they came for. We get engines back online, and retreat. 2 or more players have a chance, if they're tough enough, skilled enough, they can stop the Borg, but it's only a temporary reprieve, they'll be back, eventually.

But it shouldn't be an expected occurrence, it shouldn't be an every hour or so event like the Red Alerts, or a daily event, but something the Devs arbitrarily pop in every random few weeks, attacking Vulcan, SB39, Ganalda, DS9, or Drozana (DS9 and Drozana are faction nuetral events, GPL rewards for saving Drozana). The rarest should be attacks on Qo'Nos and Earth, but when those happen.. The Borg aren't messing around.

The "rarification" of the Borg should be balanced by every Borg encounter (not just the STFs), every Borg ship destroyed has the chance to drop EDCs and Rare Borg Salvage.

-

The Undine should be given similar treatment, no single player (even with their Boffs) should be able to take down an Undine on the Ground. It should take at least two Captains to take down any Undine ship in space. Their missions should be replaced with investigations into Founder Activity on this side of the Wormhole, they should be removed from the Exploration zones, and the early missions should always have the Undine win.

To balance this "rarification", the Undine STF should be completed and re-introduced, and two or three more Undine STFs should be created, the Undine should also drop items (DNA fragments and Tissue Samples) that can be used by Biotech experts to create Biotechnological equipment (mostly Consoles based off fusions of Undine DNA and BioNeural gelpack technology, with a few anti-Undine Nanotech weapons thrown in too).

There should also be Undine invasions and infiltration missions with the same rarities of the Borg invasions.

the answer to Villain Decay isn't to make them weaker and just say we've matched them, it's to rarefy encounters with them and make them terrifying again.
I can agree I would want them to be more difficult and yes, slightly more rare as well, though storyline wise, I do like how the Starfleet player starts their career at Vega, only to return there later in the Khitomer STF through timetravel.

I do have to note though, it is never a good idea to remove what people have gotten used to, it tends to **** people off.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 65
04-03-2012, 12:59 AM
Borg aren't obsolete. Even Qs say about not angry them.
And the support of Q warning to Fed about them, say us how powerfull enemy is.

On STO, we lose the fear a single cube.

STO needs a Fleet action were 20 players and more ships from computer fight againts a new type of cube, and that mession be very difficult to complete, but rewards be same awesome as a prototipe tech from a new set for all players that complete the fleet acction.

The incursion of Iconians open a new front, but borg are the "ultimate enemy".


Thanks to everybody for the fun, sorry for my bad english.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 66
04-03-2012, 01:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberjac View Post
Borg aren't obsolete. Even Qs say about not angry them.
And the support of Q warning to Fed about them, say us how powerfull enemy is.

On STO, we lose the fear a single cube.

STO needs a Fleet action were 20 players and more ships from computer fight againts a new type of cube, and that mession be very difficult to complete, but rewards be same awesome as a prototipe tech from a new set for all players that complete the fleet acction.

The incursion of Iconians open a new front, but borg are the "ultimate enemy".


Thanks to everybody for the fun, sorry for my bad english.
I think that ''new type of cube'' that is downright impossible to beat with just 5 people should be the much rumored Borg Diamond.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 67
04-03-2012, 04:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
Heck, the fact that there was a Collective after the Hugh episode and Lore/Borg episodes took a retcon.
Help me here please - what retcon?



Did I miss the day it became clear what the emergency call in the tutorial meant by "these borg are different" or something like that?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 68
04-03-2012, 05:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmera
Soft canon doesn't count and you know it. Hard canon is that the Queen was destroyed in First Contact too, but it didn't slow the Borg down (why would they risk her being that far forward if there was significant risk, especially since the battle was a distraction to send the time ship back?). Hugh didn't slow them down either.
They had to bring a queen - back then the collective lacked what ever technology was needed to stay in contact with a cube that far away from the delta quadrant - to travel back in time, they even had to bring one before. Picard did know the queen.
Why he never talked about it? Dont ask me! :p


Quote:
I'll bring up anything that supports my case, thank you very much. The war wasn't won by way of phased polaron anything. It was won by bio warfare and by 'Sisko intervention' (the 'wormhole aliens cutting off wormhole traffic).
He meant that the Federation was unable to counter the phased polaron weapons and therefore had to resort to other means. Or Section 31 did, for that matter.


Quote:
So the Borg, who completely ignore someone beaming on to their ship until they become a nuisance skip over vast light years of civilizations and resources just to hit the Federation a little earlier? Want to try that again?
The Queen seemed to take matters a bit more personal then your everyday drone.

Less emotion, more logic: Humans posed a greater threat as expected - overcoming such an enemy may have looked like a good opportunity to gain valuable addtions to the collective.


Quote:
A Borg fleet over Earth defines them as a threat. The Federation has only survived because The Borg are nerfed into idiots. They could have simply sent another fleet after First Contact, or multiple fleets, this time without the vulnerability that cost them the battle. They could have launched multiple timeships to increase the odds of one succeeding. It isn't like time travel is that difficult in Star Trek....
New queen, different point of view?
"Didnt work, lets try something else, stupid idea anyway."

To easy really - time travel equipment seems to be standard issue on Sovereing class starships ...


Quote:
The writers had a chance to rationalize the Borg and make them a more reasonable foe by way of Hugh but decided not to let that work.
Concur. But it would have taken away the "charm" - but then there is the queen ...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 69
04-03-2012, 05:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sobekeus View Post
Needs more Tholian Web.
IMHO , STO needs to finish ONE story line .
Be it the Borg , 8472 , the Romulans , the Klingons , something .
Right now , I'm sadly thinking that this game won't see the end of the Iconian story line because Cryptic won't get there ... like EVER .

But yeah , sure , they need Tholians .
About as much as they need one more empty social zone .
About as much as they need one more game "awesome" mechanic over story telling .
About as much as they need to muck with the Sci powers one more time .
About as much as we need Fleet Starbases .
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 70
04-03-2012, 06:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aelfwin View Post
But yeah , sure , they need Tholians .
About as much as they need one more empty social zone .
About as much as they need one more game "awesome" mechanic over story telling .
About as much as they need to muck with the Sci powers one more time .
About as much as we need Fleet Starbases .
I tried telling Heretic that the Fleet Starbases are a terribad idea but he's dead set on implementing them. I think many people at Cryptic do this sort of thing and when we tell them it's awful they say we're just afraid of change.

Fleet Starbases is one of those things that everyone thinks they want but they really don't. Latest example is shipboard interior DOff assignments. Great "reality" of Star Trek, super inconvenient to actually use and very much a pain. We're already barely a Starfleet with Cryptic's one-ship one-story paradigm, and now with Zone being so unmoderated most non-F2P people will sit in their quiet Fleet Bases all the time.
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