Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 KDF: Alpha Feedback
04-03-2012, 11:33 PM
Played Alpha on my well-established Level 50 KDF General on Elite, two times. Here is my personal thoughts:


First Impressions:

LOVED the size of the Gas Giant! I seriously mean that. I been hoping for HUGE planet scenery since Khitomer Accords when we were fighting on above that planet. So good job there.

If someday you can get the clouds to move and swirl about, giving it some depth, that would add to the dynamic!


Space: Very simple, go here, scan, fight. Not really fun.

Ground: Loved the tons of flora, giving it a thick jungle atmosphere.

Now as for going though the Jungle, not sure if the lack of markers was on purpose, but I got a strong feeling people will get lost and get very frustrated. Suggest the team goes back and improves on this a bit more.

Also, felt the BoP wreckage seemed rather small for a BoP.


Animals: Liked how the Saurs ran away from me, even when attacked. Though the pack leader attacks you.

That Orinthian cat........wasn't a challenge at all.

Class Scans: Didn't get any class accolades for individually accomplishing the classes, but expect there bieng a team accolade for accomplishing all three. As for the temporary buffs, I liked that concept. However they didn't last long, nor did they have a great enough impact to make it something you want.

I have a suggestion that you might consider. Instead of buffs, why not them having collectable items you can use for crafting?

For example, the items you collect are used in DOFF missions that are "researched", then when you get the items, you can assemble them for crafting. And the end result is the mission reward?

Like you had in the mission the plant lenses boosts weapons, so why not have them be lenses on the new weapon? And the crystals be part of the energy emitter assembly?




Okay, now for the dislikes:

The Voice Acting: No offense, but outside the person who voiced the Alpha, it was just terrible.

The Romulan was too loud, it was like he was yelling in my ear than screaming from afar. Not to mention, you can hear the echoing in the recording studio. And of course, the scream was more like his mother told him to go to his room and he was kicking and having a major tantrum.

I seriously am going to mute that moment when I do the mission again when it makes its way to the Holodeck.



The KDF Captain, felt like he was humored by the loss of his crew than being in mourning. I think you should re-record those lines.

BTW, a Warp Core Explosion would've been a massive nuclear bomb going off. I like to know how everyone survived the blast, including you!? Would've made more sense if he rigged an explosive from some unarmed photon torpedoes.



The Ambushes: Honestly, whoever made this mission sure loves ambushes. In Space and on the Ground, almost every encounter was a stupid ambush. That quickly got old.

And last I recall, the one thing thats unpopular with Foundry missions is just that. Why not have us see a lone long-range attack and people going for cover than the ambush coming out of the blue?



The Story: Really, this mission made no sense storywise. The only thing that felt worth of the story was us learning of a new Romulan Starship, which has potential for being expanded on in the future. But the mission itself and the Hirogen just don't make sense.



Klingons:

To me as a fan of the Klingons, I really felt the author of this mission really didn't grasp what Klingon Honor was. For example the bombs, a Klingon warrior wouldn't be caught as easily as that and have a bomb strapped to his chest. He would rather blow himself up then risk such dishonor.

balth potlh law' yIn potlh puS "Honor is more important than life."

bIHeghvIpchugh bIHeghpu' "If you are afraid to die, you have already died."

wej Heghchugh vay', SuvtaH SuvwI' "A warrior fights to the Death!"

DajonIu'pa' bIHeghjaj "May you die before you are captured".


I could not see a Klingon running ahead to be beamed out then easily get captured, then have a bomb strapped to his chest! No, sir! I could ee them following you back to the beam out point and aiding you during ambushes or you catching up to them, seeing them fight for their lives and you having to save them.

And the Captain, he wouldn't be sulking at his wreckage, he would be hunting the Hirogen til his last breath!


Overall: I give this mission a C-. It really felt no different than an ordinary Foundry mission. It really needs more umph and having it worthy to be played twice.



BUGs:
  • Red Wire Accolade was unable to be completed after getting 4 / 4.
  • After defeating the Alpha and beaming up, the mission didn't want to complete and give the mission rewards.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
04-04-2012, 07:10 AM
There were flaws, I'll give you that, however by this point we're gonna need to start meeting Cryptic halfway in regards to our content. If that means some cultural flaws in the stories I'm willing to live with them till they get an edit pass.

I personally liked the ambushes, it added to the feel of the mission, we're on a planet we can't scan properly, we don't know what's around the next bush. The ambushes add to this.

The captain was already on the verge of passing out when we gave him the medical treatment, even a Klingon is only so capable before having to admit he is not able to fight beyond the limits of his body.

There are other things I'd add but I have a meeting this morning I need to get to so I'll add more feedback later.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
04-04-2012, 07:54 AM
Azurian -

I thought a little bit about the Klingons who "let themselves" get captured. At first I thought, maybe my Klingon would just let them blow up for being so stupid - then I remembered - my Klingon would be infuriated that the Hirogen would do something so horrible as purposefully put members of my crew in a position of dying without honor. I would do what I could for a crewperson I was responsible for and attempt to save them or - at least by my attempt to save them, perhaps their death would have honor - and then they could enter the gates.

Klingon honor is not so cut and dry. It's far more maleable and meaningful than "you're too stupid to live." It's the Hirogen who are without honor.

I personally like the wire cutting thing. And felt bad when I couldn't save a couple of them. It made me want my revenge on the Hirogen even more - therefore assuring my crewmen's entry into Sto-Vo-Kor.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
04-04-2012, 08:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor_Forthright View Post
There were flaws, I'll give you that, however by this point we're gonna need to start meeting Cryptic halfway in regards to our content. If that means some cultural flaws in the stories I'm willing to live with them till they get an edit pass.

I personally liked the ambushes, it added to the feel of the mission, we're on a planet we can't scan properly, we don't know what's around the next bush. The ambushes add to this.

The captain was already on the verge of passing out when we gave him the medical treatment, even a Klingon is only so capable before having to admit he is not able to fight beyond the limits of his body.

There are other things I'd add but I have a meeting this morning I need to get to so I'll add more feedback later.
I agree with the above, and it's not like this is limited to the KDF. How often, as Starfleet, have you gone totally Janeway and screwed the primedirective and not called it in the morning? How many times have you gone totally Rambo or Jack Baur in a Starfleet uniform? Sometimes it can be a bit harmful to the story, like in some of the FEs, but a lot of the time it facilitates gameplay.



One last thing: If it bleeds, we can kill it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
04-04-2012, 08:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerilynnS View Post
Klingon honor is not so cut and dry. It's far more maleable and meaningful than "you're too stupid to live." It's the Hirogen who are without honor.
This, seriously. This whole idea of Klingon honor regarding prisoners... Martog was taken prisoner and rescued. Honor should dictate that he die, but he returned to his post as general and later became chancellor. The Empire more than once demanded or even bargained for the release of Klingons in Federation custody.


As I've said many, many times: Fans have such an idealized concept of Klingon honor that it's become patently absurd, and only reinforced by books where Klingons conform so closely to western human ideas of honor and morality that they don't resemble a single thing the shows ever portrayed them as. Worf expected less of his fellow Klingons than many fans seem to, and was still disappointed at every turn. Martogg's standard of honor let him advocate planetary devastation as a tool of statecraft, and glory in the unburied death of genocide, but even he felt few in the empire lived up to his standard.

As for the masses that didn't live up to his already low standard? Trashing civilian businesses, sabotaging allied ships, instigating war between rivals, even throwing the entire Empire to the dogs just to belittle a potential political rival who had no ambition for your office all passed as honorable.

Pretty much everything we did today is in keeping with Martogg's ideas of honor, and aside from Klingons and half-Klingons who grew up entirely removed from the Empire, he was by leaps and bounds the most honorable Klingon in canon.

And while we're at it: The Captain wasn't sulking at the wreckage. He WAS hunting the Hirogen, with the only weapon he had left. I take it you missed the part where he brought a warp core to a gun fight, but honor or no, when you only have one shot left, you make sure you gather as many of your enemies in one place as you can before you pull the trigger.




On the topic of the mission itself: Did anyone else catch the bit about the new Romulan ship class? Possibly tied to the upcoming Romulan related event that was leaked as a result of the D'derix Defender bug?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
04-04-2012, 09:42 AM
I thought the mission was fun & entertaining The ambushes were great sence we were being hunted as prey...I didn't really get the whole bomb thing I don't think Klingons would let that happen to themselves BUT all in all good job
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
04-04-2012, 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerilynnS View Post
Azurian -

I thought a little bit about the Klingons who "let themselves" get captured. At first I thought, maybe my Klingon would just let them blow up for being so stupid - then I remembered - my Klingon would be infuriated that the Hirogen would do something so horrible as purposefully put members of my crew in a position of dying without honor. I would do what I could for a crewperson I was responsible for and attempt to save them or - at least by my attempt to save them, perhaps their death would have honor - and then they could enter the gates.

Klingon honor is not so cut and dry. It's far more maleable and meaningful than "you're too stupid to live." It's the Hirogen who are without honor.

I personally like the wire cutting thing. And felt bad when I couldn't save a couple of them. It made me want my revenge on the Hirogen even more - therefore assuring my crewmen's entry into Sto-Vo-Kor.
Of course Klingons would be furious at having a bomb strapped to their chest, but Klingon honor wouldn't allow them to be used to kill other Klingons. They would resist and turn the favor by blowing themselves up or suiciding into the Hirogen that dishonored them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hevach View Post
This, seriously. This whole idea of Klingon honor regarding prisoners... Martog was taken prisoner and rescued. Honor should dictate that he die, but he returned to his post as general and later became chancellor. The Empire more than once demanded or even bargained for the release of Klingons in Federation custody.
Remember it was explained that Klingon Honor dictate they should die if there is no hope of escape. Martok's spirit was broken by the Jem'Hadar until Worf rekindled it and gave him hope that they were going to get out.

But having a bomb strapped to your chest isn't the same, because you are being used to kill comrades, which is dishonorable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor_Forthright View Post
There were flaws, I'll give you that, however by this point we're gonna need to start meeting Cryptic halfway in regards to our content. If that means some cultural flaws in the stories I'm willing to live with them till they get an edit pass.

I personally liked the ambushes, it added to the feel of the mission, we're on a planet we can't scan properly, we don't know what's around the next bush. The ambushes add to this.

The captain was already on the verge of passing out when we gave him the medical treatment, even a Klingon is only so capable before having to admit he is not able to fight beyond the limits of his body.

There are other things I'd add but I have a meeting this morning I need to get to so I'll add more feedback later.
I won't deny that the ambushes added to the mission, but almost every encounter in the mission was an ambush. So it felt like it was overused.

And with the Captain you misunderstand me, I know he was injured, but the voiceacting made like he was moping in self pity than struggling to stay conscious from injuries.

Meeting Cryptic halfway, I honestly try not to set the bar up too high. But Cryptic has to remember they are representing Star Trek and there is a certain bar they should maintain.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
04-04-2012, 01:27 PM
Maybe it's just me... I cannot for the life of me figure out how to complete this mission. At the part where it says "return to the transport site" I can't figure out how to get there. The map is gorgeous, but the directions are flat out awful.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
04-04-2012, 01:43 PM
Finally found out where to go.

In my opinion... First of all thankyou for the new KDF mission.

But expect people to get frustrated quickly with this. All I had was the marker on my compass to go by. Absolutely no marker on the map. It wouldn't be so bad normally.. but looking on the minimap for a clear direction of where to go is useless.

This map needs some better direction and cleaning up. For instance, when you heal the Captain and about to beam back to ship, Hirogen ambush with that huge force. You see the Romulan running away in a "walk fast" run animation. (cheesy) Also, it just feels veryyy How can I say it.. Unpolished on the ground.. like once again parts of it were rushed. It probably was just to get it out on the Klingon awareness week I suspect.

Other than that, a great and very badly needed addition to Klingon PvE missions. Not quite sure where it fits in the overall story (If it even does at all, but Ill let that go in hopes that more missions will flesh it out later.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
04-04-2012, 03:42 PM
I ran the mission and found if fun and interesting. And time was put into the map. Great addition to kdf side.
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