Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 PuG vs Premade
04-05-2012, 09:17 PM
Why is PuG vs Premade even allowed? Who do you really think is gonna win 9/10 times if not more? Premades should have to fight other premades... and I don't wanna hear about how a group of 5 premades might have to fight the same group of 5 multiple times in a row...

Fought in some PvP tonight and said PuG vs Premade was a joke in Zone chat. The premades all PM'd me saying don't blame them blame Cryptic and subsequently had already placed me on /ignore before I could even respond. I believe most Premade teams have a total and utter lack of respect for the game. Their main goal is to ruin any potential fun of others. Do you feel good about yourselves winning 15-0 against a group of people who've never played together before? How is this allowed?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
04-06-2012, 01:17 AM
whats your definition of premade?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
04-06-2012, 02:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicshower
whats your definition of premade?
this.

TSI usually has a group of 5 guys running around, but we dont consider ourselves a premade because our premade team is different then our running around as a group of 5 friends team.



and to be honest, you cant blame them for also wanting to play a game and have fun. it truely is cryptics fault here on the pvp front.



id also keep in mind that there is a major imbalance even in premade skill levels. a tsi or sad panda team usually has no issue beating other premades, against each other its a toss up. some premades also can be quite easly beaten by random groups if a little initiative is taken.

id be filled with great joy if there were 5 premades on all the time. most of the time theres only 1 and maybe some partials the rest of the time. what happens in this situation? are the premades then not allowed to fight at all as a group of friends? how would that then be fair?


keep an open mind, its fustration for the random people but its not always "fun" for the premades either. there simply isnt anywhere else for them to go.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
04-06-2012, 03:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EtherCircuit
Their main goal is to ruin any potential fun of others
Actually, I'd say their main goal is to do what they enjoy doing (PvP) with friends/fleetmates.

It's very easy to say 'oh, premades should go play with another premade' but really, how often do you see more than one set of players capable of fielding a full premade online at the same time?
What you're essentially saying is, these people should be denied the right to choose who they play pvp with, because they roflstomp pugs, and losing isn't fun. Well, of course losing isn't fun, but it's also an important part of pvp. Without the ability to be beaten, it's just like stomping NPC's in pve.

For the record (just to remove doubt of bias), I have never played in a premade.

HTFU
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
04-06-2012, 03:11 AM
Generally, I love PvP, but there are quite some occasions where I just don't get the enjoyment I'm looking for out of the game. And getting just the right amount of challenge doesn't happen very often, sadly.

Pug vs. premade
Usually this is just bloody boring. What I generally try to do is target the same guy as another one of my teammate escorts is targeting. In case he's a douche and targets an engineer in a cruiser, I target something else. Then we sting, I flee, and try again. There's a small chance the opposing team isn't paying enough attention and you'll kill one guy, but that's about it. I've thought about quitting a game plenty of times when, already in advance, I could see that it would turn out to be a boring one-sided slaughter, but so far I haven't bailed out a single time because its a bit rude. Still, I want to PvP for fun, and if I'm not getting it in these games, there's no reason for me to stick around in the future.

Premade vs. Pug
Slaughtering pugs is fun at first, but gets equally boring really fast. Unless there are a few good players in the pug at once, nobody is going to offer any challenge whatsoever. Without challenge, there's no fun, so I've refrained from going with premades. Teamwork is hardly necessary against most pugs, as long as your premade group stays together in a bundle you'll focus-outdamage anything a pug can throw at you. Coupled with a few crossheals once in a while, and everything even resembling a challenge is out the window. All you can do for fun is to try and get on top of the kill/dmg/heal list.


Generally, pug vs. pug offers a good chance at a fun fight, but the most fun I've gotten was from internally organised OPvP matches.

On a side note, attacking a good engineering cruiser in my escort is probably the most boring thing I can imagine. I can't kill him, he can't kill me, so we're just sitting there going pew-pew forever. The most fun opponents are good pilots in quick escorts who know what they're doing. I've had some absolutely great duels in random arena and capture/hold games. I think I'm going to play more duels/challenges in the future.
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# 6
04-06-2012, 03:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fleve
Pug vs. premade
Premade is a dead term (to me anyways) . Back when we used to do regular tournaments premades were put together to prefom specific task. Ill give you a example. DPS spike damage = Escort (usually 2 of these) two engineers (one DPS/backup healer/one primaryhealer) One sci for crowd control/back up healing.

Now if you want to talk about teams of people whom have some sort of rapport with other players getting together and teaming up prior to queueing a pug (may be in the same fleet) Always never a premade. However they play together and work well together which would constitute team work. It doesnt take alot of effort to hop in a pug step to the plate and be a shot caller and put up a decent fight. Rally your troops reform regroup. Dont give up half way through and tell everone "im just here for the dilithium anyways" A good attitude will reward you with an extensive buddy list and youll never be short on manpower when you need it
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
04-06-2012, 06:06 AM
You know what I don't get? I don't get why people whine about PuGs-vs-Premades.

Like Matteo said, there are different levels of Premades, and some (If not most) of them can be beaten by a careful PuG team. Yeah, the chances of a PuG beating teams like TSI or SP is very small, but I've personally been on several PuGs that have surprised a Premade team and beaten them. And those are some of the best matches I've ever played.

One match just recently, my Kling PuG lost to a Premade, partly because we had 1 AFKer, and partly because we had a carrier that we couldn't defend well enough. But we still managed to get I think 6 or 8 kills, because we picked our targets carefully, Alpha-struck them, and ran off. If we didn't have that carrier, we might have been able to win in a 3v5 against a Premade.

And even against the really good teams like TSI, I've managed to get the drop on a damaged Escort pilot now and again. Yeah, we're probably never going to win, but at least we get a few good shots in before we lose.

Don't be so concerned with it, learn from the experience. How do you expect to get any better if you don't once in a while come across a situation that kicks your butt?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
04-06-2012, 06:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EtherCircuit
Why is PuG vs Premade even allowed? Who do you really think is gonna win 9/10 times if not more? Premades should have to fight other premades... and I don't wanna hear about how a group of 5 premades might have to fight the same group of 5 multiple times in a row...

Fought in some PvP tonight and said PuG vs Premade was a joke in Zone chat. The premades all PM'd me saying don't blame them blame Cryptic and subsequently had already placed me on /ignore before I could even respond. I believe most Premade teams have a total and utter lack of respect for the game. Their main goal is to ruin any potential fun of others. Do you feel good about yourselves winning 15-0 against a group of people who've never played together before? How is this allowed?
Because Cryptic has yet to implement a matchmaking system in STO. Implications are that the basic tech does now finally exist for the underlying Cryptic Engine, and will be introduced in some future. So long, the small fishes and the large sharks will have to share the pond and hope that they find equally matched opponents often enough.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
04-06-2012, 06:30 AM
Let's make a Pick up Premade. Pay a group of players some EC or dil and you team with them.

A premade for hire. Have a Merc exchange. Better the player/fleet the more it will cost you. This could be a nice idea for open pvp raids.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
04-06-2012, 06:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimsonoa View Post
Let's make a Pick up Premade. Pay a group of players some EC or dil and you team with them.

A premade for hire. Have a Merc exchange. Better the player/fleet the more it will cost you. This could be a nice idea for open pvp raids.
"f you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the Pre-Team"?
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