Lt. Commander
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# 41
04-10-2012, 10:09 PM
No matter how you bend or break it, the mission will always end at the same final dialogue-tree or objective... If you claim anything else, you don't know the foundry.
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# 42
04-10-2012, 10:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anazonda View Post
No matter how you bend or break it, the mission will always end at the same final dialogue-tree or objective... If you claim anything else, you don't know the foundry.

I totally get that, and I agree with you 100%.

But that's just a game mechanic that has nothing to do with telling a story, and I think that's what people are really talking about here. Yes, it is true that no matter what happens, the mission has to end with the same final objective. But what if that objective is to, say, find your bedroom and Go to Bed?

Yes, at the end of the day we go to bed, but any number of things could have happened during the day! The player could get anything from a medal to a court-martial, save the universe or lose a loved one. It's all about the story!

But yes, you are correct about the game mechanic...and the Foundry tools do not make story telling very easy, so I agree.
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# 43
04-10-2012, 10:26 PM
Anazonda, you say that because you havent played my top 3 missions yet. especially Hijacked which Im very proud of. Hijacked is trigger based while xthe One moment of humanity is a mix of everything.
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# 44
04-10-2012, 10:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by woghd
I totally get that, and I agree with you 100%.

But that's just a game mechanic that has nothing to do with telling a story, and I think that's what people are really talking about here. Yes, it is true that no matter what happens, the mission has to end with the same final objective. But what if that objective is to, say, find your bedroom and Go to Bed?

Yes, at the end of the day we go to bed, but any number of things could have happened during the day! The player could get anything from a medal to a court-martial, save the universe or lose a loved one. It's all about the story!

But yes, you are correct about the game mechanic...and the Foundry tools do not make story telling very easy, so I agree.
See that's the point... When I reach the end of the day, my actions throughout my day decides if I can sleep in my own bed, on the couch (because GF is being a b*tch), or if I am sleeping on a couch at my freinds place because I was kicked out.

All of theese factors are affected by the actions I do throughout the day and changes my perception of the day.
All I want is to offer the same to people who play my missions. As long as I can't do that, I can't tell the stories I want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendra80 View Post
Anazonda, you say that because you havent played my top 3 missions yet. especially Hijacked which Im very proud of. Hijacked is trigger based while xthe One moment of humanity is a mix of everything.
I played one of your missions a while ago. But you and I both know that to complete a mission you can only have one final objective/Dialouge tree. You can create the illusion of a branching story, but in the end, you don't really.

Unless of cause you have access to tools I do not.
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# 45
04-11-2012, 10:45 AM
I have also made branching storylines based on player choices. I've even made your choices matter across multiple maps. All you have to do is ask the player in the dialogue what choice they made on the previous map. From there you set different things to trigger off of their different dialogue choices. So when you get to the end of my mission, even though the end objecting is the same talk to contact, you'll get a vastly different conversation (chewed out or praised) based on your choices.

It isn't easy, it isn't smooth, and you have to trust the player to follow instructions and remember their choices, but it can be done.

I think half the fun of the foundry is finding workarounds. I think we have to deal with the editor we have, not the one we wish we had.

We can make suggestions all we want, and there are a million good ones out there. Will it be better when season 6 hits, well we don't know do we until we hear from the mysterious foundry dev (some say his language can only be understood by the probe from Star Trek IV). But until then, the Foundry is what it is, use it or don't.
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# 46
04-11-2012, 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anazonda View Post
No matter how you bend or break it, the mission will always end at the same final dialogue-tree or objective... If you claim anything else, you don't know the foundry.
what Woghd said is what I'm getting at. It's not just the destination. If the destination was all that was important why bother with the journey?

It's feasible to setup a map so that dialogue prompt choices change the terrain layout thus forcing you to get to the end of the map in a different way.
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# 47
04-11-2012, 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
what Woghd said is what I'm getting at. It's not just the destination. If the destination was all that was important why bother with the journey?

It's feasible to setup a map so that dialogue prompt choices change the terrain layout thus forcing you to get to the end of the map in a different way.
Sometimes the destination, determines the next journey. So yes... The destination is important.
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# 48
04-11-2012, 01:00 PM
I never said it wasn't, but there's more than just the end of the road to consider.
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# 49
04-11-2012, 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
I never said it wasn't, but there's more than just the end of the road to consider.
I 100% agree that the mission content should come first, but to properly develop branching missions, and in the long run, branching story arks, it's something that has to go into the foundry at some point.
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Posts: 120
# 50
04-11-2012, 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anazonda View Post
I played one of your missions a while ago. But you and I both know that to complete a mission you can only have one final objective/Dialouge tree. You can create the illusion of a branching story, but in the end, you don't really.
Unless of cause you have access to tools I do not.
Consider this, using your example:
Stuff happens.
Based on that
- You may sleep next to your GF
- You may sleep on the couch
- You may sleep outside the house
But wherever you sleep, you go to work next day, so the last interact is the door to your workplace.

The Hijacked and the Demon Planet Adventure Edition has one, similar final objective: Use the turbolift to "resume" your work.

That happens AFTER your performance on the mission has been fully evaluated by the Admiral. That evaluation can go from "You are the best!" to "You are the worst Captain I've ever seen!".
Illusion of branching. Hm, if your mission can end in more than 30 different ways then it is a little more than just an illusion.

Demon Planet Adventure Edition was not a good example on that because the path was too obvious. I think 90% of the player did the same things in the same order so the ending was practically the same. Hijacked, on the other hand, doesn't have this "problem".

The One Moment of Humanity has a "forced" ending. Which means the player is simply told to Drop the mission because there is no way to continue. It also has a mechanism drogyn1701 mentioned. I added a simple 3 digit code at the end of one map, which you need to enter at the start of the next one. Which (or any) code you get is based on what you do on the map. The code is also marked 3 times so players will know that it is important. The whole thing is integrated into the mission to make sure it doesn't break immersion.
Granted that mission could be fleshed out a lot more with these tools, but I like to keep my missions in the 20-30 mins time range.


And finally the method I didn't implement yet.
So you have a mission. Part one may end 2 ways. Say defy orders and team with freedom fighters or comply and start to fight against them.

On say Map 3 of 5, you meet the freedom fighter leader who asks for your help. If you say yes, then he tells you that you should "Drop your current mission", "Beam back to your ship" then "Search for Mission ..... 2A in your mission log to get your first assginment".

If you say no, then fight ensues and you go on with the mission. On the last interact on map 5/5 you are told to search for "Mission .... 2B" to continue your struggle against the rebels.

See? Here the mission ends at a very different spot. You just have to make sure the "follow up mission" is there. Sure, better integration would make this less awkward and save that extra slots, but we don't have better integration at the moment.

So you have the choice now: Make do with what you have, or wait for some miracle future update.
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