Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Star Trek is a franchise that has a singular focus on the Federation, and while there are fans that have a particular attraction to the various side factions, there has never been a Star Trek series done other then from the Human Starfleet perspective.

This very Federation centered approach shows, while there are fans of various other galactic powers of the series, the majority of fans are for the Federation, with the Klingon's who are probably by far the second most popular group after Starfleet don't even come close in the fandom numbers, and factions beyond that pale compared to the Klingons in the same way the Klingon's pale compared to the Federation. To get a good visual on this, do a Google images search on Star Trek Conventions then count costumes.

But Rexy, other games can make multiple factions work! Yes, but most other IPs are about multiple (usually 2) factions in conflict. In the Star Trek IP the other powers might sometimes be in conflict with the Federation, and at other times are allies, the lines are hazy at best, plus, unlike other IPs these other factions aren't always there looming in the background of the story. Star Wars always has the Sith, Battlestar Galactica always has the Cylons. In Star Trek there is no real enemy that is always looming, though the Borg came close in TNG, and the Dominion in DS9, but unlike Star Wars or BSG they are not always there every waking moment.

Paramount has released several "Fan Collective" DVD series of the shows based on a certain theme, Klingons as on of the oldest side faction in Star Trek wound up with 11 Klingon Episiodes TOS to ENT. They did a Q series, and came up with 12, and Q was never in TOS or ENT. They also did a Borg series and came up with 14 episodes, the Borg were never in DS9 or TOS and appeared 1 time in ENT. These highlight out of hundreds of episodes how little a certain group plays into the bigger Star Trek Picture.

So, what's the point? The point is Cryptic missed the target, STO should have taken a queue from the Dominion Wars and been focused on a common enemy instead of trying to pit the various well known galactic factions against each other. By having the popular factions aligned they could give better fanservice by letting fans play as their favorite faction without the current KDF content problem, because content would be shared. PVE could then focus on the Borg and Iconian conflicts, and PVP could be revamped into Wargames, it can also get a shot in the arm with allowing mixed fleets.

Of course the Klingon Front would need to be re-worked some, but the Kuvah'magh/B'vat story works because they are rogue from the empire anyhow, and maybe some of the other Klingon based quests can be re-worked to be more pirate/criminal based.

Factions would become something related to character creation and ship selection, the conflicts would be the same, but the viewpoint would change based on the faction the player selected. This also gives players the advantage of being able to play with their friends from different factions as well, and opens up the economy to everyone. And think of the the Romulan, Cardassion, and Dominion ships you can be selling in the C-Store.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
04-07-2012, 11:34 AM
Its kinda late to bring that up, the Federation-Klingon War is part of the background and you cannot easy resolve it or remove it because you have several references to it across missions.

Its not that I disagree, using the WoW model was a mistake and it would been better to leave the Federation ad main faction with Klingon as a mini-faction that would converge with the main story line instead of what we go, in fact we are getting a storyline conversion anyway but things like the Udine episodes leave a bad taste on my mouth (serious, the Klingons go to war because of the Udine and then attempt to make a alliance with them? I understand why the Federation would try reasoning but the KDF version of the mission just feels plain WRONG) that because it seems they really dont want to take the effort to revise the KDF as a mini faction, at least they dont really talk about KDF outside "plans" that are ever changing with the error committed at launch being perpetuated.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
04-07-2012, 11:38 AM
The 2nd faction and introduction of PvP was little more than a checkbox at the back of the original STO box, it unfortunately still shows 2 years after release.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
04-07-2012, 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron
Its kinda late to bring that up, the Federation-Klingon War is part of the background and you cannot easy resolve it or remove it because you have several references to it across missions.

Its not that I disagree, using the WoW model was a mistake and it would been better to leave the Federation ad main faction with Klingon as a mini-faction that would converge with the main story line instead of what we go, in fact we are getting a storyline conversion anyway but things like the Udine episodes leave a bad taste on my mouth (serious, the Klingons go to war because of the Udine and then attempt to make a alliance with them? I understand why the Federation would try reasoning but the KDF version of the mission just feels plain WRONG) that because it seems they really dont want to take the effort to revise the KDF as a mini faction, at least they dont really talk about KDF outside "plans" that are ever changing with the error committed at launch being perpetuated.
Missions are in an order. If the episode that discusses peace happens later on, the previous episodes make sence.
I have been mentioning this for years.
Cryptic is content doing the bear minimum
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
04-07-2012, 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexy
By having the popular factions aligned they could give better fanservice by letting fans play as their favorite faction without the current KDF content problem, because content would be shared. PVE could then focus on the Borg and Iconian conflicts, and PVP could be revamped into Wargames, it can also get a shot in the arm with allowing mixed fleets.

Of course the Klingon Front would need to be re-worked some, but the Kuvah'magh/B'vat story works because they are rogue from the empire anyhow, and maybe some of the other Klingon based quests can be re-worked to be more pirate/criminal based.
Honestly, I think you missed the boat on why the KDF players are unhappy. And before you bring it up, yes I read the whole thing, I just quoted what I wanted to comment on.

That said, Klingons do not want Shared content, They want Content that is unique to them and the politics/motivations of their group. Notice how you went off on the Undine mission and how they made little sense from the Klingon perspective. Want to know why, They are shared content, with only minor differences between the two factions if you are KDF or Federation.

The federation has approximately 75 Storyline missions (Including FEs) of those about 50 are unique and offer a story that is immersible in the Federation. The Klingons by extension have 34 missions, of which only 9 are unique.

Honestly, Shared content is no way to make a faction and is the current problem with the current situation. You say no one wants to play as a Klingon, Why would they when they can blow through the content in one weekend and then are basically playing the same thing as if they were a fed character.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
04-07-2012, 12:14 PM
Star Wars is about the Rebellion & about the Jedi. Why would anyone want to play a Sith Lord?

Playing as a Sith Lord would be inherently flawed & pointless because nobody could ever come up with any fulfilling content for that faction.

...

..

In any case, it's a moot point. What we have is not a true faction on the KDF side, and it's not worth the comparative investment in resources.

I don't doubt that anyone with half a brain (except the trolls) wants to see a true second faction rise up from the smoking ashes of the KDF, which would benefit all of the game, but it isn't happening any time soon. You get more from designing for/delighting the main Starfleet faction, so why not devote the limited resources to that?

Good luck to the Romulan fans.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
04-07-2012, 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexy
Star Trek is a franchise that has a singular focus on the Federation, and while there are fans that have a particular attraction to the various side factions, there has never been a Star Trek series done other then from the Human Starfleet perspective.

Actually your mistaken as far as show time of factions are concerned, on DS9, there were a number of episodes from the Klingon, Bajoran, Romulan and Cardassian perspectives. TNG, ENT and TOS all focused on one ship and one crew like Voyager but this focused on the Kazon and Borg on a few episodes as well.

This very Federation centered approach shows, while there are fans of various other galactic powers of the series, the majority of fans are for the Federation, with the Klingon's who are probably by far the second most popular group after Starfleet don't even come close in the fandom numbers, and factions beyond that pale compared to the Klingons in the same way the Klingon's pale compared to the Federation. To get a good visual on this, do a Google images search on Star Trek Conventions then count costumes.

I actually dont care for the Klingons, while they may have their fanbase im more a fan of the Cardassians myself.

But Rexy, other games can make multiple factions work! Yes, but most other IPs are about multiple (usually 2) factions in conflict. In the Star Trek IP the other powers might sometimes be in conflict with the Federation, and at other times are allies, the lines are hazy at best, plus, unlike other IPs these other factions aren't always there looming in the background of the story. Star Wars always has the Sith, Battlestar Galactica always has the Cylons. In Star Trek there is no real enemy that is always looming, though the Borg came close in TNG, and the Dominion in DS9, but unlike Star Wars or BSG they are not always there every waking moment.

BSGr had cylons almost every episode, some episodes that didnt have cylons did have context about them in some form or another. Star wars may not of had the Empire until EP4, however the enemy that became the Empire was there, so it was looming as well. Star trek has its main focus being the Klingons and Romulans during the 23rd century and Borg and the Dominion during the 24th century.

Paramount has released several "Fan Collective" DVD series of the shows based on a certain theme, Klingons as on of the oldest side faction in Star Trek wound up with 11 Klingon Episiodes TOS to ENT. They did a Q series, and came up with 12, and Q was never in TOS or ENT. They also did a Borg series and came up with 14 episodes, the Borg were never in DS9 or TOS and appeared 1 time in ENT. These highlight out of hundreds of episodes how little a certain group plays into the bigger Star Trek Picture.

Your wrong about Q beings not being in TOS, an entity known as 'Trelane' may of been a Q as he demonstrated powers almost idenitical to Q powers along with their temprament of almost being childish. But there have been alot of Klingon focused episodes, you just need to trawl through the trek series.

So, what's the point? The point is Cryptic missed the target, STO should have taken a queue from the Dominion Wars and been focused on a common enemy instead of trying to pit the various well known galactic factions against each other. By having the popular factions aligned they could give better fanservice by letting fans play as their favorite faction without the current KDF content problem, because content would be shared. PVE could then focus on the Borg and Iconian conflicts, and PVP could be revamped into Wargames, it can also get a shot in the arm with allowing mixed fleets.

If sto focused on one enemy, then there would of been alot of complaining about a lack of diversity, without the Romulans, Ferengi or Cardassians, it just wouldnt be the same if it were instead just the Federation and Klingons.

Of course the Klingon Front would need to be re-worked some, but the Kuvah'magh/B'vat story works because they are rogue from the empire anyhow, and maybe some of the other Klingon based quests can be re-worked to be more pirate/criminal based.

The saviour of the klingon empire is just a story from long ago and only a small crew from an ancient D7 cruiser ever believed it because of the cooincidences and circumstances, it had no basis to be on STO since it never spread when the klingons established their own colony in the delta quadrant. i find it highly unlikely they communicated this back to the empire.

Factions would become something related to character creation and ship selection, the conflicts would be the same, but the viewpoint would change based on the faction the player selected. This also gives players the advantage of being able to play with their friends from different factions as well, and opens up the economy to everyone. And think of the the Romulan, Cardassion, and Dominion ships you can be selling in the C-Store.

i thought you wanted this from just two view points? your arguing for the other factions to be cut out for the Federation and Klingon empire and now your requesting it be expanded for the rest at a price. you pretty much broke a hole in your own floor and fell in.
my replies in red.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
04-07-2012, 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Staran View Post
Missions are in an order. If the episode that discusses peace happens later on, the previous episodes make sence.
I have been mentioning this for years.
Cryptic is content doing the bear minimum
I know.

Problem is the Cardassian Front was updated with 2800 FE added to it, that also added a new series to the KDF and it makes a very strong case to the Federation-Klingon War being ongoing, Breen comes next and once again you have references.

They are deliberate maintaining the Federation-Klingon War.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
04-07-2012, 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron
Its kinda late to bring that up, the Federation-Klingon War is part of the background and you cannot easy resolve it or remove it because you have several references to it across missions.
It would be easier to fix that then try and do seprate content for KDF and Romulans and Cardassians, and Domnion, and Fregengi et al.

Quote:
Originally Posted by voyagerfan9751
Honestly, I think you missed the boat on why the KDF players are unhappy. And before you bring it up, yes I read the whole thing, I just quoted what I wanted to comment on.
I don't care about why KDF is unhappy, all I see is that the resolution is getting pushed further and further and further out, and since all other factions are barred from being added until their is a "complete" KDF, I don't currently see any other factions being added within a decade. Also, as KDF form a pure Star Trek fan base point of view is way more popular then any other faction, and the size of the faction is already too small to make it worth spending those resources on, what is going to happen should they ever get to a Romulan faction that has a fraction of the KDF fans? Or a Cardassion faction that probaly is a fraction of the szie of the Romulans? If the KDF cannot be sustained, what chance do those factions have?

Quote:
Originally Posted by catliketyping
Star Wars is about the Rebellion & about the Jedi. Why would anyone want to play a Sith Lord?

Playing as a Sith Lord would be inherently flawed & pointless because nobody could ever come up with any fulfilling content for that faction.

In any case, it's a moot point. What we have is not a true faction on the KDF side, and it's not worth the comparative investment in resources.

I don't doubt that anyone with half a brain (except the trolls) wants to see a true second faction rise up from the smoking ashes of the KDF, which would benefit all of the game, but it isn't happening any time soon. You get more from designing for/delighting the main Starfleet faction, so why not devote the limited resources to that?

Good luck to the Romulan fans.
BioWare seems to make a Sith faction work, in fact that faction is slightly more popular, heh. I don't see how more full factions benefit the game, there isn't enough interest in them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
04-07-2012, 01:23 PM
This game needs as many factions as possible. One of the great things about the Klingon faction is that when you get bored with the Federation missions, it opens up a whole new style of gameplay. There are some very nice Klingon-exclusive episodes (and hopefully we will see a few more each year) and the ship configurations and abilities are fairly unique. Furthermore, in a way, it seems easier to develop good mission for the Klingons. When I hunt federation ships in Ker'rat, it actually feels like Star Trek. Most of the federation episodes do not because they focus too heavily on battle and not enough on mystery solving and diplomacy (which are a lot more challenging to develop).

Cryptic should work on finishing the Klingons and adding the Romulans and Cardassians. The only way to keep people signing back in is to give them something new to play and different factions allow you to level new characters and have a unique experience different than leveling Federation characters.
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