Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
04-12-2012, 09:36 PM
There are certain players who bring Tier I ships to Elite STFs.

Suffice to say this reduces the effective firepower of the team to only 4 ships and may adversely affect Optional completion as the Tier Is do not produce any effective firepower or support abilities.

Said Tier I pilots I encountered are unconcerned about the objectives and as as good as AFKing the entire map.

Sure, they fly around and appear to shoot things, but get blown up every minute and do not bother to repair a gigantic list of ship damage accumulated.

The problem becomes bigger when you notice aforesaid Tier Is doing team queues - having 2 Tier Is on an Elite STF = the remaining 3 players have to exert double effort.

At the risk of sounding undiplomatic I will say this:

If you want to muck around with fighters/shuttles/Tier I starships, go play Normal. That mode has ample room for mucking around.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
04-12-2012, 09:45 PM
The problem isn't just sabotuers. The fact is that there are a number of different typesof player:-

1) The numpty who won't admit they are a noob

2) The numpty who just won't follow instructions

3) The hero who is new to the STFs and thinks he can solo a gate on KAE or IE - this is especially a problem for those experienced on normals who start playing elites and think they have in cracked without realising the strategies are different.

4) The ubder-elite numpty who goes into Elite level pugs and then gets a sulk on within two seconds because there is a noob or two in there, so goes gets killed and sits there waiting to respawn for the end of match loots after the noobs and those of us who still try and help them have spent 30 mins fighting their way through with a four man team.

5) The idiot who still doesn't know what most of his special abilities do and uses them all at the wrong times.

I have to say that I have yet to play a pug where I thought someone was purposely there to mess things up (although there was one guy who seemed like it, but after everyone barked at him fell into line). But, all of the above are frequent problems for me when I play in pug groups.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
04-12-2012, 09:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElChup47
I have to say that I have yet to play a pug where I thought someone was purposely there to mess things up (although there was one guy who seemed like it, but after everyone barked at him fell into line). But, all of the above are frequent problems for me when I play in pug groups.
While those who don't try STFs are discouraged by the apparent "Newbie bashing", there is no other effective ways of instructing PUGs to achieve victory because there is simply no time and no means (no voice comms usually) to talk people through the map.

The most effective PUG pilots on elite are those who are able to accept criticism and implement them to contribute to the team's effectiveness. Sometimes I give instructions (when a build works) sometimes I receive instructions (when another build doesn't work well), there is no hard feelings exchanged but we all want mission success one way or another.

Pre-made strategies work fine for pre-made groups and fleets, but with random pilots some sort of tactical direction is required.

Either one person decides on strategy and the rest follow (whist anticipating for the usual screwups and react to them to save Optionals), or the team has to self-regulate and give feedback to each other on the fly. The fact that accidental or improperly timed use of certain powers can totally **** up a map means that immediate feedback is necessary.

So long as there is communication (no matter how many swear words are flying) the team will be successful. Most players don't type, but they'll tell you before and after the match that they do watch what's being posted on Team channel so any bit of advice on team directives DO help even on the worst of teams.

On the other hand if there is absolutely no communication during key junctures (not even directions or offers of communication) but only some loser lamenting about PUG quality at the end.. that's not effective command and control.

It takes just a couple seconds to type in Team "10% this", "watch probes" or "don't repulse". And these little bits of info on Team chat can save missions for those who might get disoriented or lose situational awareness mid-mission.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
04-12-2012, 10:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carmenara
While those who don't try STFs are discouraged by the apparent "Newbie bashing", there is no other effective ways of instructing PUGs to achieve victory because there is simply no time and no means (no voice comms usually) to talk people through the map.

The most effective PUG pilots on elite are those who are able to accept criticism and implement them to contribute to the team's effectiveness. Sometimes I give instructions (when a build works) sometimes I receive instructions (when another build doesn't work well), there is no hard feelings exchanged but we all want mission success one way or another.

Pre-made strategies work fine for pre-made groups and fleets, but with random pilots some sort of tactical direction is required.

Either one person decides on strategy and the rest follow (whist anticipating for the usual screwups and react to them to save Optionals), or the team has to self-regulate and give feedback to each other on the fly. The fact that accidental or improperly timed use of certain powers can totally **** up a map means that immediate feedback is necessary.

So long as there is communication (no matter how many swear words are flying) the team will be successful. Most players don't type, but they'll tell you before and after the match that they do watch what's being posted on Team channel so any bit of advice on team directives DO help even on the worst of teams.

On the other hand if there is absolutely no communication during key junctures (not even directions or offers of communication) but only some loser lamenting about PUG quality at the end.. that's not effective command and control.

It takes just a couple seconds to type in Team "10% this", "watch probes" or "don't repulse". And these little bits of info on Team chat can save missions for those who might get disoriented or lose situational awareness mid-mission.
I think one of the problems is that some people have no sense of diplomacy when it comes to noobs. There is a problem with rudeness towardsnew players I think. I certainly envountered it when I started doing them, especially at normal level for the first time.

I'm a professional in real life (law) and I deal with both the public, as clients, and my own staff on a regular basis. When dealing with both diplomacy and respect is the key. You don't get what you want out of people by calling them an idiot or a fool, or just generally shouting at them. I very much translate this into the way I deal with STFs. I am, for the most part, always as polite as time will allow and try to add like touches as well such as putting over my instructions as requests and sugestions rather than barked orders. The way I see it, if the other players are reasoanble thne this will work better, but if they are not then they aren'tlikely to listen to a load of barking either. They'll just go about doing what they want.

Unfortunately, I think a lot of those wh play are still kids and don't understand the sorts of concepts we are discussing here.

As for people who don't talk, there is no excuse for going into an STF and refusing to communicate. They just ruin it for everyone and it baffles me why there seems to be so any out there. But its a problem that cannot be solved for the reasons I've just said. If they aren't going to communicate and listen then no amount of barking, or whatever else, will change that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
04-13-2012, 01:05 PM
I agree with your point ElChup47 but at the same time diplomacy and respect are two way streets.

Joining the Elite STFs without being properly kitted, knowledgable of the level's mechanics, and knowing the proper/best strategy to finish the mission is being just as rude and disrespectful to the seasoned players as it is for those seasoned players to yell at the noobs when they screw up the run.

It may sound cold, but IMHO somebody who is obviously unprepared/too inexperienced (as in, no repair kits/regens, doesn't know how the levels work, 1st time playing the STF but started on Elite mode, etc) to run Elite STFs deserves every bit of chastising that they receive.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
04-13-2012, 04:05 PM
new one Pug in KA elite ground goes into rooms lowers shields just to get kills and loot?
huh I asked to stop nicely but ignored so we cleared room then I went in because we waited for abit and would not start at B3 where we were and whole team was mad

I wemt save the option by 20 seconds this small group needs to be banned from stf's they are totally ruining them when they are supposed to be fun
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
04-13-2012, 05:49 PM
again 3 of them farming boxes
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
04-13-2012, 05:50 PM
these pplayers need to be banned from STF's as a whole
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
04-13-2012, 09:08 PM
Well, I don't know about banning these guys who ruin it for the rest of us through ignorance, miscommunication or sheer incompetence, but the current state of the matter is that those who play STFs for real are the real ones being banned at the moment because of the 1 hour quitting penalty. When I don't have much time to play and I find out I'm in a group that either doesn't read the chat or simply doesn't communicate at all and I see that they don't know what they're doing, I know I'm in for at least a 1 hour session with this STF alone and for nothing but useless junk at the end (if we don't actually fail).

There really shouldn't be a penalty when you leave a STF before the end because the party crashers are usually not the ones doing it; only the frustrated serious STF players do.

STO should do something about the saboteurs, true, but they should begin by not penalizing players because they opt out instead of being frustrated by a GAME. Games should be fun, not frustrating. Not to mention that, instead of having bad words thrown out on the chat, the player could just start over with, hopefully, a better group.
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