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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Prior to the beginning of April, torpedo doffs would each individually:

-Grant a 20% chance to reduce all torpedo cooldowns by 2,3,4,5 sec (by rarity ascending)

These boffs stacked, and would individually proc, that is to say, if you had 3, 0.2^3 *100% = 8% of the time, you would reduce your torpedo cooldowns by up to 15 seconds (3 purples) every time you fired.

Since at least April 5th however, it seems that there were either inadvertent or unlisted changes to torpedo boffs.

Now the behavior seems to be ... erratic, and specific to certain torpedoes:

General behavior is as follows:
-Procs may no longer proc more than once per torpedo cooldown at least, Hargh'peng torpedoes specifically, other torpedoes seem to be unaffected. This is hard to test, although I tested w/ a tribobalt torpedo in the rear and the CD reduction procced multiple times.

-Multiple procs may no longer proc at the same time on any torpedo.

-Side note: Hard to say if abilities proc this anymore, they used to, but torpedo spread would not give 2-4x the chance to proc it, which is definitely understandable.

The following doffs were used in these tests:
-2 Ten of Tens
-1 Hunter Ikrin

If this is a balance change, I can understand that, but I see no mention of this in the patch notes for the last month. Therefore I have to assume this is a bug until a dev appears and explains that it was intentional and simply unreported.

Frankly, it's frustrating to be running a torpedo build, and then without warning be stealth nerfed. Are we expected to be testing every component of our current build every week just in the event of an unlisted nerf? Am I suppose to be prepared to pay for a respec every week in case something like that happens? Seems unreasonable.

This appears to be in effect in Holodeck as well as Tribble.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
04-13-2012, 06:07 AM
it could be more than likely, the stacking itself was a bug and was never reported so its quiet possible heretic believed he squashed it before someone found out about it?

after all.... a lot of DOff abilities dont stack. and im sure pretty much chain firing harg'pheng torps is not something he intended.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
04-13-2012, 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenkari
it could be more than likely, the stacking itself was a bug and was never reported so its quiet possible heretic believed he squashed it before someone found out about it?

after all.... a lot of DOff abilities dont stack [actually you'll note that the game will not allow you to equip more doffs than you can stack]. and im sure pretty much chain firing harg'pheng torps is not something he intended.
That's indeed true, and you'll notice in the original post I accepted all possibilities without wildly speculating what the cause was.
If you're implying that I should try to 2nd guess the devs before reporting a clear undocumented discrepancy whose cost will come out of the playerbase's pockets, then that completely defeats the purpose of bug reporting.

All I'm saying here is I've discovered an undocumented change that decreases the effectiveness of a build for some # of people to the point where a respec token is encouraged.

My confusion stems not from the intentional or inadvertent change to mechanics (which is not reflected in the doff description) but to the lack of documentation associated with it.

A short line of text that says "fixed a bug with torpedo doffs" is the minimum responsibility.

Even reading the description of torpedo doffs would, mathematically, fully support the previous implementation.

Numerically (CombatLogParser), a torpedo build itself was at best, competitive, and offered an alternative to the two traditional builds of beams or cannons.
You get a boost from not needing weapon power, but torpedoes do 35% dmg to any shielded targets, so it's not exactly the silver bullet solution or even competitive with beams or cannons in terms of DPS.
The only role it fills is the possible tank.


Before someone steps in and says "that's the risk you take for not running an official build". I don't think players should be punished for creativity, especially considering how few competitive builds there actually are (2). Additionally, I don't believe limiting a player's build options is the correct solution to balance the build spectrum.

If a nerf that may force a respec is going to happen; it should at best come with a free respec. At worst it should be documented... somewhere; that's all I'm asking.

I'm not demanding a dev to come here to kow tow and commit seppuku. I'm only asking for confirmation (a why would be nice too) and demanding full disclosure in the future, especially for something that makes or breaks a build.
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