Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
04-23-2012, 05:47 AM
This "ability" is pretty poorly built right now. One ship can shut anyone down indefinitely, something no other ability in the game can do. Using energy weapons is effective, they are rather fragile, if they are launched from a distance and you have FAW or CSV or some Science AoE. Their cool down allows the swarm to build up again very quickly, they move so fast that the limited arc of torpedoes is incredibly difficult.

It might be different if Power Insulators actually worked against them but they don't. And even if they did what would Insulators do? Would the drain be slowed down but still ultimately allow all systems to reach 0 in spite of batteries and emergency power abilities? Would you remain at 0 until someone else kills the drones or you die as is the case now?

As much as I hate all the clutter on screen, I do kind of understand that longer cool downs might diminish the feel of being a Carrier.

See what happens if you cap the amount that each drone can drain. EPS Transfer is completely negated. At least if Emergency Powers or Batteries weren't drained immediately you could have power in one system, like engines for example, which would allow you to get enough distance to start regaining a little weapons power while they try to chase you down.

Or maybe give the drones themselves a cool down and global cool down that functions as player abilities like Tachyon Beam. I can't remember the exact numbers but basically they drain for a little while, go on cool down, and then start up again.

I don't even like being Klink side with people using these things. I want people to die as much as the next guy but not while they sit there powerless (literally). Once they are set upon you, either they die or you do. Hours of practice to develop an effective power drain build? Please. It might not be easy for someone who uses them to notice (or maybe they don't want to notice) just how out of balance these things are, especially since it is such a "brilliant" and complex tactic, but fly against them a few times and it becomes pretty clear that there is an issue.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
04-23-2012, 06:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHale View Post
This "ability" is pretty poorly built right now. One ship can shut anyone down indefinitely, something no other ability in the game can do. Using energy weapons is effective, they are rather fragile, if they are launched from a distance and you have FAW or CSV or some Science AoE. Their cool down allows the swarm to build up again very quickly, they move so fast that the limited arc of torpedoes is incredibly difficult.

It might be different if Power Insulators actually worked against them but they don't. And even if they did what would Insulators do? Would the drain be slowed down but still ultimately allow all systems to reach 0 in spite of batteries and emergency power abilities? Would you remain at 0 until someone else kills the drones or you die as is the case now?

As much as I hate all the clutter on screen, I do kind of understand that longer cool downs might diminish the feel of being a Carrier.

See what happens if you cap the amount that each drone can drain. EPS Transfer is completely negated. At least if Emergency Powers or Batteries weren't drained immediately you could have power in one system, like engines for example, which would allow you to get enough distance to start regaining a little weapons power while they try to chase you down.

Or maybe give the drones themselves a cool down and global cool down that functions as player abilities like Tachyon Beam. I can't remember the exact numbers but basically they drain for a little while, go on cool down, and then start up again.

I don't even like being Klink side with people using these things. I want people to die as much as the next guy but not while they sit there powerless (literally). Once they are set upon you, either they die or you do. Hours of practice to develop an effective power drain build? Please. It might not be easy for someone who uses them to notice (or maybe they don't want to notice) just how out of balance these things are, especially since it is such a "brilliant" and complex tactic, but fly against them a few times and it becomes pretty clear that there is an issue.
This.

I'll gladly challenge any moron that thinks they aren't broken right now to a shuttle duel and we can see just how "amazing" they are as a pilot.

here's a hint siphon droners... you'll be the one hitting the respawn button. Every Time.

Pressing the spam siphon drones and assimilators buttons are not skill. Which is all that's required for this "power drain build" to be devastatingly effective. Now for a real *** hat move, you throw on Phasers and Viral matrix. hit the FAW buttons, and between your phaser procs which auto shut people down, target sub (just for extra 9 points of kick) and viral shenanigans you've just disabled 3-5 ships in short order. That the defender of the siphon drones suggest lolarons for the build says all we need to know about his knowledge.

Maybe the lol cryptic should give me back the broken CSV3... so I can one pass entire teams. Obviously that takes hours and hours to master lining up the volley so I can wipe an entire team, that's using full resistances in one pass.

I put my klink away, because KvF and KvK has become a matter of who brought more siphon drones and assimilators and not about skill.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
04-23-2012, 06:44 AM
On a Captain with Warp Theorist and Efficient Captain. Six out of nine in Starship Warp Core Efficiency and Potential. Six out of nine in Starship Power Insulators. All BOFF's with the efficient trait. Using a Fleet Escort with an all AOE build. Torpedoes and Cannons. All [acc]x2. Not going to be missing any pets.

Even killing all the pets while closing the range to be effective against the carrier the pets would be launched again and I'm looking at zero power levels. No really, zero power levels. How does that even make any sense? Am I missing a counter here? I think I have all the passives and even killed all the pets, but they spawn right back. Pop emergency to engines and there you sit. Even with six of nine in EPS because from zero you don't go up that much so even with evasive you're still stuck there. And if it is a science captain in that carrier well you can see how they bring other abilities to the table to ruin your day.

These builds do more than apply constant pressure. They apply a permanent shut down.

How many players use a broken skill is not what makes it broken. Even if no one used it, it is still broken and needs to be fixed. If something is broken or not working as intended it is impossible to know what other things it may be affecting or in what manner it may be affecting them. It has been said before and I'm sure it will be said again. Get everything working as it is intended to work first. And then we'll see.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
04-23-2012, 08:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavairo

I'll gladly challenge any moron that thinks they aren't broken right now to a shuttle duel and we can see just how "amazing" they are as a pilot.

here's a hint siphon droners... you'll be the one hitting the respawn button. Every Time..
Lol. You assume that people who use a siphon drone build are completely retarded and have never used another ship before.

Hate to burst your DELUDED bubble of self glorification but as a KDF player from pretty much release of this "mmo" we have had nothing to do EXCEPT pvp and master piloting tactics.

I dont know you. You may be good or you may suck hairy balls, frankly I dont care. BUT i do not dare criticise other players and assume they have 0 pilot skills, because they use a build that I cannot beat.

I would love to see somone take up your challenge and submit you to a good *** whooping for your ignorance.

Me personally do it? Add me Tunguska@Iam_Pulsar, If im around and have time for your "Games" I may be inclined to humour you. If your statement was just macho posturing, then dont and go back to raging on forums.

Anyone with half a brain cell knows not all player builds are beatable 1v1. There are many build types that are nigh on impossible to beat single handedly.

For example, Look up YODA from the fleet ISC (often found in Kerrat), he runs a beastly defiant which i can say is probably one of the strongest builds ive seen in the game. I've seen him tank several ships and score kills at the same time. Does that mean his build is OP and we should have whatever he's using nerfed?

No because he's taken time to put together a build that works just right. This is the same with power siphon drone builds. A build that if half assed put together wont last two passes from a good team in kerrat or Arena.

Just because you guys cant beat this siphon drone build singlehandedly doesnt mean you cant beat it in a team. Remember, this is an MMO not a single player action adventure game. Team work is REQUIRED.

This game has become a joke, instead of people overcoming and adapting to tactics, they rage, cry, whine and scream unfair and overpowered.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
04-23-2012, 08:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by You_Died_Lol
Just because you guys cant beat this siphon drone build singlehandedly doesnt mean you cant beat it in a team. Remember, this is an MMO not a single player action adventure game. Team work is REQUIRED.

This game has become a joke, instead of people overcoming and adapting to tactics, they rage, cry, whine and scream unfair and overpowered.
AMEN, brother
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
04-23-2012, 09:10 AM
I made a power drain carrier build back when faws was king. The siphons died on the launching pad.

Maybe they buff faw again to fix? edit - I havent touched a carrier since
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
04-23-2012, 09:18 AM
Speaking as a carrier pilot, the most effective ways I've seen people defeat my drones is to either pop a weapons battery followed by FAW, or to carry a single rack of mines, usually on autofire. Drones are stupid, and will usually fly right into the mines; alternatively, if the drones are already on them, they can still fire the mines, which seem to clear the drones off pretty easily. An aux battery followed by photonic shockwave is also effective.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
04-23-2012, 09:18 AM
I'm sorry, but if you had any experience fighting AGAINST siphon drone builds you would know:

1. There does not seem to be a cap on how much they drain, they just keep sucking
2. Power Insulators does not seem to affect the drain
3. They have a shorter cooldown than spam clearing abilities (28s) a given the nature of firing cycles (4s for beams, 2s for turrets) you basically need 1 person on spam clearing duty using nothing but FAW or CSV the entire match, seriously reducing the firepower of said team.

They would be balanced if:

1. There was a cap on how much each drone could drain as per the science BOff skill Energy Siphon
2. Power insulators did something to mitigate the drain
3. Make them tougher but spawn less often, making use of carrier pets a Tactical and strategic decision as opposed to a spam and forget ability.


If you don't think there is anything wrong with Power Siphon Drones, then I want my -40/sec Tyken's III back, my no Self damaging Trics, elimination of the shield cap console, CPB to be unresistable, my Target Substems I to go back to -30 or -40 whatever if was pre-nerf, and I want CSV to go back to what it was pre Season 1.2. I also want my 30sec scrambles without immunity.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
04-23-2012, 09:19 AM
"Just because you guys cant beat this siphon drone build singlehandedly doesnt mean you cant beat it in a team. Remember, this is an MMO not a single player action adventure game. Team work is REQUIRED."

You can't have it both ways. It isn't reasonable to say that one build can easily solo opponents and that it requires a team to overcome that same build and that that is intended. Do you understand this? Put another way it is fine that it takes two players to defeat any single players, as long as that single player isn't capable of defeating other single players or duos all else being equal. This is important to understand that the team work required must go both ways or it is invalid.

I'm sure YODA is a great guy. I'm sure that has no relevance here. Each and every one of us that bothers to can certainly remember an instance where one player has overcome multiple other players. I'm not even sure why you mention this at all. If this is to show that a better prepared player can defeat those that aren't prepared well okay. We all know this. How this relates to powers and the counters to those powers apparently not functioning properly is unclear.

Now if you're saying the powers are working properly and they are doing what they are supposed to be doing and its just fine and dandy that passive defenses seem to have no effect then okay I certainly accept that as an answer.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
04-23-2012, 10:15 AM
There are great tactics and then there are broken mechanics. Experienced players won't often confuse the two, nor is it likely that they will attempt to defend the broken ones. I could have had a hell of a tactic set up when MACO Shields were reducing damage to 10% rather than by 10%. Just because it would have been effective doesn't mean I'm great or that the build was.

Anyone can create a build around something that is broken or over powered. It's not that hard nor is it as impressive as some seem to think, lol. Sorry that balance is such a threat to some.
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