Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
I did a experiment last night with the Excelsior Retrofit and the Tactical Odyssey I put the same setup on both ships.

Here's the setup I ran on both ships


http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...86dpscruiser_0

upfront

3 Rare Mk X Disruptor Beam Array's
1 Very rare Mk XI Photon Torpedo ( does less burst Damage than Quantums but out Dps's it )


In the Back
3 Rare Mk X Disruptor Beam Arrays
1 Very rare Mk X Photon Torpedo


Deflector
Borg Deflector

Engine
Borg engine

Shield
MK XI Maco Shield


Eng Consoles
1 Rare Mk X RCS Accelerators
2 Uncommon Mk X Neutronium Alloy's
1 Rare Mk X Emergency Force Fields

Sci Consoles
Rare Mk X Shield Emitter Amp
Rare Mk XI Bio Function Moniter

Tactical Consoles
2 Rare Mk X Disruptor Induction Coils
1 Rare Mk XI Photon Detonation Assembly

Power settings always set on Attack
weapons 118/100 on excel 124/90 on Oddy
shields 79/50 on excel 73/60 on oddy
Engines 58/25 on excel 51/25 on oddy
Aux 53/25 on excel 46/30 on oddy


I then ran two Eltie STF Cure missons and loaded up the combat Parser to see my Tdps for each ship.
I played each misson the same as I attacked the probes and cubes and did not guard the Kang.
I got some interesting results The Oddy had it's shields stay up a little longer and the hull didn't go down as fast. Where the Excelsior's shields and hull went down quicker by just a little. But the really interesting thing was that fact that Excelsior doubled the oddy's Tdps 8,000 to 4,000. Quite a interesting find to me since the Oddy has a +15 bonus to weapon power and is suppose to be a Vice Admiral ship and the Excelsior is suppose to be a Admiral Lower Half ship. I am not quite sure why the huge difference in Tdps between these two ships. Has anyone else seen this as well or was it just a glitch or something?
I can't really say why the Exceliser seems to be a better ship , the only thing i can think off is the 3 degree difference in turn rate 9 to 6 which allows the Excelsior to get it's noce and rear lined up a lot easier to fire off it's torpedos where the Oddy is just a pig that won't turn hardly at all. I also noticed that the running 6 beams instead of 7 really helped with weapon power drain and actually improved my Dps. I don't have to run two copies of Emgerncy power to weapons to keep my weapon power up and can add a extra shield or hull heal with out the extra EPTW.

I'm not saying all this is set in stone , was just an interesting find for my Tactical toon, it might not be same for some one else. I will say it does seem tha the Excelsior is the best Cruiser for Tactical Captains atleast in this test, but I could be wrong.

Would love to hear other opinions and thoughts on this.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
06-01-2012, 08:42 AM
you might want to try the science Odyssey with the same layout and see what it those. minus one tactical consoles that is.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
06-01-2012, 08:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCO
you might want to try the science Odyssey with the same layout and see what it those. minus one tactical consoles that is.
Aren't all the Odyssey's the same ship except for the extra console for eng, tact or sci depending on which one you go with.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
06-01-2012, 08:47 AM
I can't look up your build URL. Furthermore, the tactical Odyssey only has +10 weapons. Also, their BOff layouts can be quite different. It is in fact impossible to perfectly replicate an Excel-R BOff layout on an Odyssey.

Furthermore, EPtW offers a boost in DPS in general for a short duration on top of the power boost.

What BOff abilities were you using? This can make a massive difference.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
06-01-2012, 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_1999
I can't look up your build URL. Furthermore, the tactical Odyssey only has +10 weapons. Also, their BOff layouts can be quite different. It is in fact impossible to perfectly replicate an Excel-R BOff layout on an Odyssey.

Furthermore, EPtW offers a boost in DPS in general for a short duration on top of the power boost.

What BOff abilities were you using? This can make a massive difference.
try the build link now not sure why it wasn't working but it seems to be now


http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...86dpscruiser_0

I know the Boff layout isn't quite the same but what I did to try to make it the same is at the Universal Lt Cmdr station I ran tactical along with the Lt Tactical station. So in end I just had on the Oddy and only one on the Excel-R.

Only the Oddy I ran TT1 TS2 BFW 3 at Lt Cmdr
at the Lt I had TT1 and BFW 2

on the Excel-r I ran TT1 TS2 and BFW3

so even with the extra 2 Tact abilities the oddy didn't out Dps the Excel-R

Keep in mind tthose skill points on that build page are a couple levels behind because it was done at level 48 and my experiment was done at Level 50
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
06-01-2012, 08:57 AM
Despite the fact they gate the ships between RA and VA they are all Tier 5 and meant to be all equal.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
06-01-2012, 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gt86 View Post
Aren't all the Odyssey's the same ship except for the extra console for eng, tact or sci depending on which one you go with.
They each have different power setting and consoles. But only the science on has

Sensor Analysis
Quote:
Sensor Analysis is a passive ability of Federation Science Vessels and Klingon Support Vessels. While maintaining a target selection lock on an enemy less than 10km away, a stacking buff to the vessel's weapons and subsystem targeting will build to a maximum of 10 stack over approximately 60 seconds against that target. Each scan stack adds a 3.33% buff, up to a maximum of 33.3%. Switching targets has a very high chance of removing the buff, so changing targets or having sensors jammed will reset the stack.
http://www.stowiki.org/Ability:_Sensor_Analysis

So the science one has +10 Shield and +10 Aux

Oh and the tac has

+10 weapons power
+5 shield power
+5 auxiliary power


to me it seems that 33% extra damage vs 1 On tactical console slot is better.

With +10 shield and +10 aux you can shield and lower and put more power to weapons.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
06-01-2012, 09:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCO
They each have different power setting and consoles. But only the science on has

Sensor Analysis

http://www.stowiki.org/Ability:_Sensor_Analysis

So the science one has +10 Shield and +10 Aux

Oh and the tac has

+10 weapons power
+5 shield power
+5 auxiliary power


to me it seems that 33% extra damage vs 1 On tactical console slot is better.

With +10 shield and +10 aux you can shield and lower and put more power to weapons.
I will have to try it out since I do have the Oddy bundle and can use all 3 ships. I was just amazed at the 4,000 Tdps difference between the Tact oddy and the Excel-R. The only other thing I can think of is even though with bonus's my weapon power was at 125 even though I had it set at 90 on the Oddy it effect my damage output but I was under the impression that it wasn't suppose to work that way.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
06-01-2012, 09:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCO
They each have different power setting and consoles. But only the science on has

Sensor Analysis

http://www.stowiki.org/Ability:_Sensor_Analysis

So the science one has +10 Shield and +10 Aux

Oh and the tac has

+10 weapons power
+5 shield power
+5 auxiliary power


to me it seems that 33% extra damage vs 1 On tactical console slot is better.

With +10 shield and +10 aux you can shield and lower and put more power to weapons.
This is not so straightforward as it seems.

First of all, with SA it takes a lot of time for that to build up to 33%. In most fights that aren't STFs - and in many fights in an STF that aren't against large enemy structures - the fight's going to be decided one way or another by the time SA really kicks in. You're also not going to be able to switch targets, or use repair powers on teammates, without risking losing the SA bonus.

Second, with the power boosts, it's not so cut and dried. You can't boost your weapon power above 100 with direct power allocation. You may also be depriving yourself of some warp core efficiency boosts. So in weapon-centric power configuration, you won't be able to reroute the power to the weapons. But with the +10 from the tac Ody, the weapon power stacks to bring it to 110 minimum, not including other boosts (stats, consoles, etc.).

So altogether, using a Science Ody to boost DPS is, IMO, dubious at best. It's probably best for science captains and REALLY hard-core tanks.

Personally I would strongly recommend using the tactical Odyssey for the base ship unless you're a shields and aux lover or a science officer. Especially if you have the Ody bundle. In fact, if you have the Ody bundle don't bother with the ops cruiser, just strip out the saucer sep console and plug it into the sci or tac, then toss the ops cruiser away, as the +5 engine boost is wasted on the Ody, unless you absolutely MUST have 5 engineering console slots.

That said, the initial question for this thread continues to baffle me.
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