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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Well. I just finished playing my first match back in my sci/sci. It was against a premade, but I was with my friends. Anyway, absolutely nothing is useful in any way now. The exception being GW, but only because it still works against pets.

I tried 3 different combinations of PSW, CPB and GW. Meaning I rotated them in and out of the commander slot, while maintaining lower levels of the other 2 in the LtC slot.

PSW still works for an interrupt, but that is it. It's stun duration is hilariously useless. The knockback is minimal.

CPB is utterly useless in any incarnation.

GW is only useful against pets (think I said that)

I consider it necessary to be able to effectively run at least 1 of these powers in a sci/sci build for PvP. In the current state of resists vs. sci powers' base stats, sci/sci's are detrimental to a good team make-up. They contribute nothing but SNB (which they can also do in a cruiser or escort), and shield healing (but without burst hull heals to make it useful).

I still can't effectively fly my sci. That is how I feel.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
05-03-2012, 04:25 PM
About as useful as a chocolate fire guard.

CPB - No shield damage (All turrets with tet glider would do more damage)
PSW - Time hacked to bits (Tractor spam is better to hold enemies)
Grav Well - No PVP effect (makes nice colours on screen)

In summary: About as useful as a chocolate fire guard.

To rant a bit more, how the hell does Cryptic introduce new things, break things that worked and take weeks to just think about fixing stuff? Power tray as example.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
05-03-2012, 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmr1580 View Post
Well. I just finished playing my first match back in my sci/sci. It was against a premade, but I was with my friends. Anyway, absolutely nothing is useful in any way now. The exception being GW, but only because it still works against pets.

I tried 3 different combinations of PSW, CPB and GW. Meaning I rotated them in and out of the commander slot, while maintaining lower levels of the other 2 in the LtC slot.

PSW still works for an interrupt, but that is it. It's stun duration is hilariously useless. The knockback is minimal.

CPB is utterly useless in any incarnation.

GW is only useful against pets (think I said that)

I consider it necessary to be able to effectively run at least 1 of these powers in a sci/sci build for PvP. In the current state of resists vs. sci powers' base stats, sci/sci's are detrimental to a good team make-up. They contribute nothing but SNB (which they can also do in a cruiser or escort), and shield healing (but without burst hull heals to make it useful).

I still can't effectively fly my sci. That is how I feel.
What about Repulsors III? I've heard it does great damage and decent repel. Worthwhile?

But this is sad to hear...I mean, with all 4 deflectors from sets (Omega, Borg, Aegis, MACO), there is at least +15 to Inertial Damp(en)ers, with the Omega having Power Insulators and Sensors, the Aegis having Power Insulators, and the Borg having Power Insulators (MACO doesn't have PI). These are deflectors found on every ship and they provide a substantial bonus to resisting sci abilities.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
05-03-2012, 05:16 PM
I'm a total noob to STO. In other games I've successfully played a support role and thought Sci/Sci was the perfect fit for my native talents. I thought that being in a support role I wouldn't be a detriment to my team as I learned to play the game. I was wrong. Science ships should come with a disclaimer: Experts and masochists only.

Not only did I respawn my way to level 50 in less than three weeks, but going from PvE, (which I erroneously though of as training for PvP,) to PvP was a complete shock. I had absolutely no clue what I was doing wrong, but I was getting killed in about three seconds while using abilities and tactics which were more or less effective against the engine. Even now, without a team to support me, I'm an easy kill for any ship or team in my Recon Science Vessel. My powers don't disable or damage the enemy in any significant way and the weapons I'm allowed to mount do not do enough damage to do more than annoy my opponents.

The few abilities I was able to find that worked have been targeted for 'fixes' by the patches which have occurred since I began playing, and they no longer work. Tachyon Beam III used to drop a shield face, now it's a wasted ability slot. Literally. Gravity Well used to immobilize targets. Now they fly through it like it's not there. Jam Sensors does force the opponent to waste a Science Team. I cannot find an ability or combination of abilities which do actually impact the opponent. At best, I can create a one or two second 'window' through which my team must be ready to fire, or my entire chain of abilities is wasted with a 2 minute cooldown to try again.

In other words: when I'm on a team I'm the liability. If my team doesn't waste their healing I cost them the match in respawns, and my inability to do more than annoy the enemy makes my ship a wasted ship slot on the team roster. My biggest benefit so far is that when I do come into contact with the enemy they know I'm the easiest kill, and therefore I distract them while my teammates can work on other targets. If I'm lucky enough to survive I can be an effective distraction. That's a win for me.

The one sci ability which does work, (which has an easy counter as well,) is tractor beam, which doesn't work as canon ST tractors do. It should be a tether between ships, and possibly reduce turning ability as the two ships try to drag one another across the map. Instead it staples you to the floor for the duration. And tractors only work if the team has several and can chain them, or if the opponent somehow forgot to have Polarize Hull I, which is a get out of jail free card against TB III.

My, (admittedly noob,) evaluation of the situation is that, anything a Science Ship can do, a science captain in a Cruiser can do better, with more guns to back him up and more shield and hull to take the pounding.

As a final note: I also erroneously thought that a Recon ship would be fast. Sure, burst speed from an escort should be the high speed record holder, but for sustained speed and maneuverability a fleet scout should be tops. In other words, I should be able to run away from the overpowering cruisers. I am not significantly faster than even the largest, bulkiest ship on the map, (I've been chased down by Kar'fi carriers.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
05-03-2012, 05:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikrit122 View Post
What about Repulsors III? I've heard it does great damage and decent repel. Worthwhile?

But this is sad to hear...I mean, with all 4 deflectors from sets (Omega, Borg, Aegis, MACO), there is at least +15 to Inertial Damp(en)ers, with the Omega having Power Insulators and Sensors, the Aegis having Power Insulators, and the Borg having Power Insulators (MACO doesn't have PI). These are deflectors found on every ship and they provide a substantial bonus to resisting sci abilities.
Yes, repulsors are effective, but your escort buddies will curse your name until the end of time if you equip them...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
05-03-2012, 06:16 PM
I might get called a noob for this,...but I like playing a Sci/Sci. It is satisfying to fly my LRSV-R & watch escorts & cruisers pop before my underpowered & underequipped might...

Seriously though, I am very disappointed by how sci abilities have been declawed as of late. If I end up at the top of the pack for damage in a match then I know my team must not be doing all that well. It seems that most, including Cryptic, don't even know what a sci's purpose is.

The role of a Sci/Sci captain should not be DPS, or pure healing. Our job is to set enemies up for a kill & stay alive long enough to see that through. By sub nuking, VM, TyR, SS, TB, GW, PSW, or whatever. By draining your power, killing your turn rate, sucking your shields, &immobilizing your ship so others can pound you. I canmot be pure DPS, & I should not focus on pure healing either as there are better equipped & designed ships for those roles.

I know that many sci resistances are overpowered & many abilities have been nerfed into near uselessness, but I like my Sci guy, & I like my Sci ship. & I always up for a challenge...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
05-03-2012, 06:27 PM
I can support better in my Sci/MVAE than I can in my Intrepid.

Why? Instead of having useless pretty lights for abilities, I can actually do damage and still bring the SNB.

Unless it's a heal, Sci abilities are pretty worthless. I've loaded up on all heals on my new Atrox because there's nothing else worth getting. FBP 3 in my Commander slot because Tyken's/GW sucks, CPB is lol, Scramble 3 is fail, and TBR 3 will make Escorts hate me. VM would be... acceptable, but the ship turns too slowly to be used effectively.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
05-03-2012, 06:53 PM
I think my science vessel feels ******.

Good thing that the next ship that is going to be added to Stellar Impact is the science vessel. They'll get the balance right.

Cryptic has stuck themselves between a rock and a hard place. If they buff science vessels back to being useful, the new kitty carrier will be so ****ing overpowered that no one will use anything else. Or maybe that's the plan

On one hand, no one at Cryptic really knows how to play their own game, understands their own systems, or has any idea about balance. All of this could be fixed if the devs weren't so arrogantly opposed to playing their own game. On the other hand, you have limitless greed that would make a Ferengi blush. Bad combination.

Yeah, I'm done playing nice. I hope (but don't expect) that Cryptic will eventually figure out what they're doing and I can find the desire to log in again.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
05-03-2012, 07:36 PM
Offensive Science abilities need a complete pass. I used to love my MVAE for the Lt. Comm. Sci slot on an escort, but now it seems like a waste. I was hoping GW would be decent after the patch, but apparently that isn't the case; and now with the PSW nerf--it's like, what's the point. I might as well throw my MV console into an AE and get more mileage out of the Tac-heavy Boff setup it offers since the Lt. Comm. Sci slot is fairly worthless right now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
05-04-2012, 11:54 AM
Agree.. but cryptic even cared about it? They told us that ths scie powers were going to get fix in the last patch.. and at the end we end up with the same USELESS GW, useless CPB, and now they even nerf PSW.

The solution is simple, buy a Sci Oddy, a Prome or the new Caitian Carrier.

In any case, what do you guys think of the Viral Matrix? I know is crap, but...
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