Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
05-04-2012, 06:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spektre12
Great points indeed. The iPad3 can be considered a Treklike gadget as well. Oh video teleconferencing too! The statement I'm quoting above makes me very sad. I know we have most of the technology to do all of the above you stated however we are hindered by Greed on a global scale. Think of how far we'd be if it were not for greed, especially American greed (ours).
Think of how far along we would be if technological advancements werent associated with witch craft and sorcery.

Hell theres good evidence that we had technology back during the sumerian and egyptian time periods that has been lost. Thats like for example most people dont know during the biblical times in Egypt there were such things as electrical batteries.

In the ultimate end, greed is the ending point of many great technological advancements. Tesla, his advancements were stolen by Edison even though he went to greath lengths to prove Tesla`s a/c current was not the way to go. Then we have Tucker, who in 1948 built a super safe car that had many many features that we see on modern cars today but he was put under by the big three because they couldnt competitively compete with Tucker. That is how it goes, people will steal and scheme to get truckloads of money but they will not do for the betterment of others like Tucker or Tesla was wanting to do, they only want to use them to the advantage of making money for themselves. Once we get away from that then we can truely focus on advancements that will put us more like the trek universe than we are now.
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# 22
05-04-2012, 07:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milner62
Then we have Tucker, who in 1948 built a super safe car that had many many features that we see on modern cars today but he was put under by the big three because they couldn't competitively compete with Tucker. That is how it goes, people will steal and scheme to get truckloads of money but they will not do for the betterment of others like Tucker or Tesla was wanting to do, they only want to use them to the advantage of making money for themselves. Once we get away from that then we can truly focus on advancements that will put us more like the trek universe than we are now.
You need to watch the movie about him. It's really, good to say the least. We need another Revolutionary War for any changes like greed to be eradicated by us for the betterment of our world. Unfortunately war seems to be the answer in this day and age. Want oil, kill for it.
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# 23
05-04-2012, 08:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spektre12
You need to watch the movie about him. It's really, good to say the least. We need another Revolutionary War for any changes like greed to be eradicated by us for the betterment of our world. Unfortunately war seems to be the answer in this day and age. Want oil, kill for it.
I actually have the movie in bluray. Been trying to find a kitcar to build a replica of his design as well. In the end most people dont know that his car was designed in a way where if you had engine troubles all you did was go to a tucker dealership they remove four main bolts, drop the whole engine and drive axle assembly and they cart over a loaner that they rent to you while they repair your engine and you never have to rent or drive a loaner vehicle. Then theres the central head light which contary to what the movie said actually did work, it would pivot with the steering wheel of more than 15* turn of the wheels.

I think there would be a civil war before another revolutionary war. I also think there would be another secession before there would be another civil war. But even in the time of when our civil war was fought, it was fought by a tyarrant that wanted to keep those under his thumb and expand government which is why we have government like we do today.



As far as the oil goes, we got enough oil in our own borders that if we didnt bend to the whilms of insane envromentalists we could be just like Chile that last I checked had gas selling for $0.70 a gallon cause their just swimming in the stuff. But nope people buy into the enviromentalists and complete morons like al gore with their scare tactics and then we give money to them and they keep saying what we want to hear after being scared so we keep giving them money. I just hope with the outcry over the damage the tsunami on Japan is doing to the western sea board of the US by those enviromentalists will open up the eyes that these wack jobs complain about anything is destroying the enviroment. But then again enviromentalists have been documented using terroristic tactics to get their way but we turn the blind eye.

This is why I think we would have states leaving the union before we see a civil war or a revolutionary war.
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# 24
05-04-2012, 09:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milner62
As far as the oil goes, we got enough oil in our own borders that if we didn't bend to the whims of insane environmentalists we could be just like Chile that last I checked had gas selling for $0.70 a gallon cause their just swimming in the stuff. But nope people buy into the environmentalists and complete morons like Al gore with their scare tactics and then we give money to them and they keep saying what we want to hear after being scared so we keep giving them money. I just hope with the outcry over the damage the tsunami on Japan is doing to the western sea board of the US by those environmentalists will open up the eyes that these wack jobs complain about anything is destroying the environment. But then again environmentalists have been documented using terrorist tactics to get their way but we turn the blind eye.

Well said sir or ma'am. I really despise people like that who hold us back. I'm all for cleaner, cheaper, better but I'm realistic about it. The EPA should be shut down. They do more harm than good. The environment has been here billions of years and we aren't moving fast enough to destroy it. They should be worried about asteroids hitting us or like you talked about Tsunami's. Mother Nature is far more destructive than we puny humans are.

Oh, as for the headlight Tucker designed, BMW stole that idea and so did Audi and Mercedes.

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# 25
05-04-2012, 09:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairymanback View Post
The vast majority of humans do live in harmony in Star Trek but not all of them. I think its from cornucopian technologies that alow humans to exsist in peace not the fact that we are not alone or have been visited by aliens for the first time. My 2 cents.
Sorry Hairyman but I have to totally disagree with you. Technology is just things and lets face it there are lots of wealthy people who want for nothing and have access to all sorts of wonderful doodads that are greedy, hubristic jackholes that make the world a more miserable place for being here. What we need is not better ways to build things or better ways to organize ourselves but better people to build and organize. We need a moral awakening.

To quote a better man than myself
Quote:
The means by which we live have outdistanced the ends for which we live. Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles but misguided men.

-- MLK Jr.
I still think we can make a better world but unfortunately it's going to be WAY harder to convince everyone to embrace morals and ethics than to build replicators and warp drives.
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# 26
05-04-2012, 10:45 PM
No. Even if we had near-endless resources, there are too many people who just NEED to tell other people how to live, whether its how to live a lifestyle or what god to follow or whatever. How much anger is there today by people who have plenty but are angry solely because someone else has more? If anything, new tech would make it worse, both because people would have more free time to be obsessive and dedicated to The Cause, and because of the new forms of destruction available with that new tech. How much destruction would be their be if some sect, angry about the Federation giving equality to 'soulless machines,' started ramming cargo freighters into cities at Warp 4? If anything I think the wars would get nastier simply because they'd be about less tangible things. Not fun.
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# 27
05-04-2012, 11:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commadore_Bob
I've always believed that it isn't mankind's introduction to aliens that cause the problems to go away, it is the advent of technology.

How much of your income is spent on transportation, food, and fuel? In an age of transporters, replicators, and anti-matter reactors, most of what we consider an economy is non-existent. Poverty, disease, and war are almost all related to a lack of transportation, clean and healthy food, and fuel and the quests to get them. Remove the need for those and you have pretty much ended the causes of most wars. Even wars based on religious or political purposes have a resource management undertone. Even Bin Laden was a US ally until they quit funding is fight against the Soviets.

So, to me, it is possible for mankind to reach that state of unity. But to quote Quark, "Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, nephew. They're a wonderful, friendly people as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts... deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers... put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time... and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people will become as nasty and violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon."

If we ever do reach a state of unity, it'll be because of the technology we develop, not the aliens we meet.
This I agree with. Even anthropologists have pointed to our Globalization of capitialism as something that needs to be balanced but are soon finding that it is going to reach its finite cap when the planet can no longer sustain us. SO Technology is going to breach this gap but will it be free? There will be a point that will break this current system not sure when but it will happen.
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# 28
05-05-2012, 12:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien_de_jour
Sorry Hairyman but I have to totally disagree with you. Technology is just things and lets face it there are lots of wealthy people who want for nothing and have access to all sorts of wonderful doodads that are greedy, hubristic jackholes that make the world a more miserable place for being here. What we need is not better ways to build things or better ways to organize ourselves but better people to build and organize. We need a moral awakening.

To quote a better man than myself


I still think we can make a better world but unfortunately it's going to be WAY harder to convince everyone to embrace morals and ethics than to build replicators and warp drives.
I whole heartedly agree with Alien_De_Jour. Morals and ethics are an imperative factor if we as a people are to move on. Greed and powermongering is hampering human progress to a staggering degree. Money is considered power (not all powerfull) but power non the less. The people who have this power WILL NOT give it up without a fight.

From what i've read and seen in this world is that the poeple we put incharge have failed us, our world leaders have failed us, time and time again. Be it from greed or power mongering, corruption, severe lack of moral and ethical guidance and absolutly no regard for life in any form. I'm not saying all have failed because there have been good leaders. The good leaders however seem to be followed up by the morally vacuous next guy that happens to have the backing of equally unmoral, unethical, control hucksters.

I was trying to make the point of: Take away the need for money to buy food, clothes, roof over your head, creature comforts by creating technologies that make acquiring necessities for survival easy to obtain and for all the masses to enjoy. The next step would be to sort out the lazy people from the ones who wish to accomplish something be it a small town house builder to the guy who designes the first ship that will leave our solar system. Do you want to be remembered? HOW do you want to be remembered?

Be ever vigilant for the person who would wontedly destroy your life and the things you love because its fun. Forgive and let go of the blood grudges we have formed with each other over the centuries. We the people as a whole are fractured. We lack world wide unification because our leaders can't let go of their "power".

Power exsist where men and women believe power exsist. Without people there is no power, money has no worth and one man or woman can't control what isn't there. My 2 cents.
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# 29
05-05-2012, 06:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spektre12
Well said sir or ma'am. I really despise people like that who hold us back. I'm all for cleaner, cheaper, better but I'm realistic about it. The EPA should be shut down. They do more harm than good. The environment has been here billions of years and we aren't moving fast enough to destroy it. They should be worried about asteroids hitting us or like you talked about Tsunami's. Mother Nature is far more destructive than we puny humans are.

Oh, as for the headlight Tucker designed, BMW stole that idea and so did Audi and Mercedes.

That is the sad thing. The EPA along with the enviromentalists are controling what others do because they want people to agree with them which is now why we have laws on emissions. I mean really we do emisison testing to get rid of smog, ok smog is formed by three byproducts, two of which comes from cars but cars do not emit these two byproducts and havent been since 1969 when emission control systems just started to come out. For instance Nox is one building block of smog, the EGR valve came out in 1969 to combat Nox by lowering the combustion chamber temperature which prevented Nox from being formed. Then you have HC which is unburned few, by 1973 we had catalytic converters out that uses cermaic and platnium cores to store heat from the engine to burn this unburned fuel out of the exhaust system. But yet we still have scare tactics of smog from cars even though weve had emission systems to combat that.

And who might you say got the emission testing started? Yep our good buddies in California, they strongarmed the government by telling them that either they mandate emission testing or they will mandate it for themselves as their state rights and then all vehicles sold in California like vehicles sold in Canada and over seas would have to be built to sastify the "law" California did this because people are ignorant and complain about the air being so thick with smog you could cut it in Hollywood. Funny because there were natives living in that valley and the smoke from their camp fires created a haze in that stagnate valley which prompted spanish explorers to call it the vally of smoke. There is no air circulation but the rest of the country has to suffer from the stupidity of a few.

That is like the government is removing ZDDP also known as Zinc from automotive oils all because they say it causes premature failiure of the catalytic converter. Problem is though Zinc is a very good antiwear additive that protects flat tappet lifters from wear. Given new cars all have roller lifters now, but the older cars that are still on the road need this Zinc to keep the camshaft and valve train from failing prematurely. Well this is nothing but a government tactic to get old cars off the road because they last longer and are easier to maintain not to mention inspection on these vehicles is cheaper as well. I also have proof that the zinc killing catalytic converters is false. I drive a 1978 Mercury every day and has almost 200,000 miles on it without a overhaul. The car still sports the orignal Ford logoed dual catalytic converters from 1978 on it, Zinc reached its peak concentration by 1984/1985 and then started to drop. My vehicle put on a ASM emission test, listed as a 1994 F150 truck with the correct information for my engine and driveline actually allowed my vehicle to pass a stricter emission test with the orignal factory equipment with flying colors.



On the topic of stolen ideas, that happens everywheres. Ford had air ride suspension (what we call today airbag suspension) offered in their vehicles in 1958. Ford took the idea from a inventor that created a small car company that didnt last long that used rubber bags filled with air for suspension back in 1910. Then lets see, oh everyone remembers the cars from the late 90`s early 2000`s bragging about their convertible hard top? Well Ford was there first in 1957 with the Ford Sunliner retractable hard top. Everyone knows about automatic convertible tops that goes up if it starts to rain? Well Ford was there in 1955 with a convertible top that would rise if it started to rain. Everyone says PCV systems came out in 1968, wrong Chevrolet had them as early as 1961 and Ford had them as early as 1955 for those sold in California. Automatic signal seeking radios in cars dates back to around 1960-61. Then there was a inventor that created a kit to modify your production vehicle to have automatic parking assist back in 1957 it was called the "Park Car" which uses the spare tire to make getting in and out of parking spots easy. Push button automatic transmissions were used by Chrysler in the late 1950`s. In the 1930`s they had a feature that you load up your cigaretts in and you push a button and a cigarett would pop out lit ready to go. Then we had what was called traffic viewers which was piece of cut glass in a fancy style that you attached to your dashboard and if you coudlnt see the stop light you could see the glow of the light even in daylight on the traffic viewer. Day/Night mirrors thats 1950`s technology also. Then padded dashboards and seat belts were offered by Ford in 1955.

In the end if a automaker is proclaiming a technology new and orignal odds are its not new or orignal cause it was stolen off optional features from the 1940`s, 1950`s, or the 1960`s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReginaMala View Post
No. Even if we had near-endless resources, there are too many people who just NEED to tell other people how to live, whether its how to live a lifestyle or what god to follow or whatever. How much anger is there today by people who have plenty but are angry solely because someone else has more? If anything, new tech would make it worse, both because people would have more free time to be obsessive and dedicated to The Cause, and because of the new forms of destruction available with that new tech. How much destruction would be their be if some sect, angry about the Federation giving equality to 'soulless machines,' started ramming cargo freighters into cities at Warp 4? If anything I think the wars would get nastier simply because they'd be about less tangible things. Not fun.
That is it in a nutshell. Its people wanting to control others. Thats why I am just quietly supporting seccession and breaking away because things are getting to bad with the whole do as I say not as I do mentality. I mean hell you cant even find adult stores here anymore so if you need something for your love life with your partner you have to order online. The religious wack jobs ran them all out of town and now their working on strip clubs proclaiming that their children walking past the closed doors of the clubs are being tempted and corrupted by them. One even said the strip club across the street from the church was corrupting their members. I laugh and say well if you didnt have such a boring sermon maybe they wouldnt be inticed to go into the strip club to feel alive. Most sermons are nothing but boredom with the monotone voice and the preaching of how your going to hell if you dont live your life the way I interpert you should.

I just dont buy into all that, I believe in a higher power but I feel that there is too much gray area to lump everything as good or bad. If I take money as a gift from a friend but come to find out that money was stolen by him does that mean I stole the money? In my opinion no. Its like if I find a bag of money on the ground and no one is around if I keep it and tell anyone does that make me in the wrong? In my opinion no, if I turn it in odds are they will pocket the money instead through corruption. Thats like if I am at a store and they ring me up and they scan the items but two high dollar items they missed scanning, am I obligated to tell them? In my opinion no because its not my job to tell them how to do their job. If they skip scanning an item and dont charge me for it I technically did not steal it cause they gave it to me in a check out back after not charging me for it.

Something like this has happened before, I went to lowes and got 6 bags of dirt, the expensive stuff not the cheap, and told the woman running the register we had 6. She scanned one and punched stuff in on the scanner to say I figured it was 6. The price came out cheaper than I expected but I paid and left, by time I got to the car and check the recept I found out I was only charged for one bag of dirt. I could have went back and let them know but hey if I give a customer too much money back that is on me. If I forget to charge a customer for a service that is on me. This is that gray area I am talking about, doing this doesnt make you a bad person and you stole items, but it also doesnt make you a good person either. You are neutral, in the middle between good and bad in that gray area.
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# 30
05-05-2012, 07:39 AM
Quote:
Good point about technology; I suppose if everyone could have everything they wanted for free from a replicator people wouldnt have much to fight over
not really. people would just find new things to fight over and new reasons to fight. its human nature.

Quote:
As for FTL speeds, general relativity theory actually provides the theoretical foundation for warp speed
huh? actually its pretty clear on the fact that nothing can accelerate to the speed of light. infinite mass and all that.

Quote:
Humanity is much more likely to destroy itself before we even get past our own solar system
indeed. its already nearly happened a few times. sooner or later I have no doubt whatsoever that it will happen

Quote:
and even if we do get that far and find other intelligent life, we're much more likely to automatically assume their hostile and fubar first contact so much that they just wipe our asses out.
yeah thats true. that, or they actually will be hostile. assuming there is other intelligent life, common sense says that not all of it will be friendly. sidenote: ever see that masters of horror episode 'the screwfly solution'? wouldn't be at all surprised if that ended up happening to us

Quote:
Bridging back to number 1 and the gap between invention, development and practical useage, over-population, famine, disease, dwindling resources, and war over it all will probably stunt true space exploration to the point where if anything a couple of ships might be sent out to the closest possible M-class planetary systems looking for salvation. However, if I were those people I would abandon Earth and try to completely start over the right way on a new planet
I doubt anybody being sent out like that would be provided with the resources to do something like that, for that very reason

Quote:
Reguardless first contact with any alien race friendly or hostile will result in the world throwing their differences aside. I think hostile alien`s would result in coming together and throwing differences aside more than a friendly alien race. It will be the situation where we all have a common enemy among us and its the hostile alien life forms.
why would we just throw everything aside just because hostile aliens show up? we were united in world war 2 against a common enemy and that didn't stop us from being hostile toward eachother

Quote:
The reality is we dont want alien interaction. The first contact with an alien life form could result in a world wide plague as we are exposed to organisims not native to our planet.
indeed. just remember what happened when europeans reached north america

Quote:
Tesla, his advancements were stolen by Edison even though he went to greath lengths to prove Tesla`s
what achievements? he made a bunch of absurd claims about technology he claims to have invented and could never provide any evidence for, nor could he or anyone else reproduce what he claimed to have done
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