Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Myths about the BoP
05-29-2012, 12:10 AM
First, I'd like to start off with pointing out that this post could be interpreted as me "complaining about other complainers". However, I think it is important for me to do this because my complaining actually has one important goal and that is to make certain players understand that the Bird of Prey is NOT over powered.

I love pvping, I love pvping with my Klingon because I'm an idiot anti-conformist who always goes for the under dog and even though we wipe the floor with you Feds during PvP, over all this is YOUR game. You have more content, costumes, ships, etc. After levels of grinding (not sure if it's much grinding anymore, haven't leveled any toons since they levels for the kdf were cut) we develop some sort of hatred for Feds out of jealousy. It's kind of cool in a way, because as weird as it might sound it makes for great immersion being a Klingon - It's almost like we're being trained like soldiers to hate Feds and learn how to blow them up in the most effective way possible.

So when I PvP I like to have my black cat, Binx, lying on my lap while I stroke his black fur and grin as I take out Feds in one clean sweep with very little struggle. But sometimes, once in a while, and I'll use tonight as an example - I try to attack a player that I stand NO chance against.

I was playing Capture and Hold, taking out your escorts, cruisers, and even carriers with complete ease. I spotted a Caitian carrier making a cap, I began stroking Binx firmly as I powered up, decloaked and... got completely owned. I brought his shield facing down to little less than half, it powered right back up, I was caught in a mess of tractors beams, I spammed my eng batteries and evasive manuevers and he followed me just like Ricky, the kid that used to chase me and beat me up after school everyday and laugh with his demonic freckled face while he pounded me into submission. I cloaked thinking "okay, NOW I'm safe" I decloaked right away and Ricky... I mean the player of this carrier continued pounding on me and killed me. All of that happened in less than 30 seconds...

I tried convincing myself "Oh he was just lucky" I waited for all my cooldowns to finish and found him alone again, seeking revenge and gave it everything I got and... got completely owned again. I threw my head set on the ground, reached under Binx' belly and chucked him across my bedroom at a wall. I marched up to him and began pointing in his face, yelling and screaming all sorts of curses. I wasn't screaming because I lost though, I was screaming because even though I can usually blow up a Fed ship with ease there's some Feds who are just as capable, or even more capable at PvP than a Klingon. Feds have majority of the voice in the STO community so when they something in the other faction needs to be nerfed I get terrified that it might actually happen.

See, if my first run of attack doesn't blow you up quickly, I'm pretty much doomed. Sure, there might be some players that can survive and do fantastic dps in a BoP, but there's a lot of Defiant players who are the same way - In fact, I have a Fed tac in a defiant that I think could take out my BoP.

I can't speak for all BoP players when I say this - But even though we can take you out in one run doesn't mean it doesn't take a substantial amount of effort. Not only does your loadout has to be right, but the timing, the maneuvering - These are hit and run ships and if we can't run and don't get you on that initial alpha, we're screwed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
05-29-2012, 12:36 AM
Correct.. The Bird of Prey, as a ship, by it's self, is absolutely not Overpowered.

The Hegh'ta has less Hull then an Escort, even though it can fly like an Escort.. Why? Because it's a RAIDER class ship. Raiders should be played with a typical hit and run style vs any opponent that can do any good DPS against you. Meaning Escorts (mostly) and probobly Tac/?. Because Tacs in most ships, if done right, can eaisly be just a much a threat to a lone Hegh'ta.

B'rel-R has even less hull then the Hegh'ta. Again, this is a Raider class ship. And it has an advantage of being able to stay cloaked while fireing Torps, or some BO Powers revealing your self for a short time (Unless used on your self) with Mines being deployed and not revealing you. Again, as a Raider, you should be hiding and hitting and running. Attacking ONLY when you know you have a kill condition, and a way to survive any alphas that come your way the moment If/when you Decloak. Escorts are again the bane to the B'rel. Even more so then the other ships. Especially if flown by a Tac. And again Tacs and especially Sci's are a threat to the B'rel. Because of it's squishyness.

So what if both ships get Universal BO slots and an Escort's Firepower and Turn rate? It has less BO powers then any other ship in the game of the tier 5 range. It's Consoles are divied by 3 amongst the 3 areas. And it's Weapons set up is the SAME as a Tier 4 Defiant class Escort.

Best Classes for the Raider class? Tac or Sci. Engi shouldn't fly this ship unless it has a build that works with it. Despite an Engi being able to increase the Survivability of the Raider class ship, it's powers are better used else where.

Best Power on a BoP? Photonic Shockwave 1 or higher. Because this power can give you a way to stun your foe while providing an Alpha strike to the target and prevent the target from having enough time to deploy defenses if used wisely.

So, what have we learned from this rambling rant on the BoP?

The BoP is squishy and gives up alot for it's ability to strike a foe in the way that it can. The BoP's Fire power is no better then a Tier 4 Fed Escort. The BoP has the Least amount of BO Powers avaliable despite it's Universal Slots. And a good Escort or Sci can be deadly to a BoP.

Thank you for reading this post, and enjoy the massively repeated information. :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
05-29-2012, 02:34 AM
Thank you OP this was the most entertaining thread ive read in along time. Bird of Preys are in a league of their own and by far the best ship ive flown in this game. Alot of good players out there are very hard to take down and are vigilant when playing against a team with BoPs. We shine when they are caught with their pants down. Its all about the timing. The hardest ones to kill are usually the best target practice for me
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
05-29-2012, 03:19 AM
I agree BOPs are still pretty much best ship in game (although carrier with elite pets are pretty much op just now)

BOPS have been causing balance problems since launch due to the universal BOFF slots and for most of the time due to this have been the most powerful ship in through out the games history.

For most of the games history they have had best tanking to DPS ratio , amusing for a ship meant to be hit and run.

They have often indirectly been the cause of many science nerfs due to being able to use the better sci skills with high fire power.

The Universal Boff slots lent them selves to the Voldermort bug, so for quite long periods we had Volderbops flying about spaming ALL the powers on ALL your bridge officers, not just the ones you had equipped,


It's just been poor design we should never have had universal BOFF slots, they just cause problems.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
05-29-2012, 04:43 AM
The Bop or not the Bop, that is the question!
Seriously, a single Bop isn't a real problem...very fast and with the battle cloak, it's perfect for a surprise devastating alpha strike, but if the target isn't alone and survives the Bop can be in real trouble and the attack can become a suicide mission.
But the real strength of these wonderful killing machines is the Universal Boff...
Imagine a pair of Bops, a Tac and a Sci Captains, the first strikes with all his powers, the second stuns and paralyzes the victim...and since there are also 3 or 4 of them fighting together at Ker'rat, well...the conclusion is that the targ packs are really OP...at least until our beautiful and powerful Atrox hasn't entered into the battlefield!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
05-29-2012, 04:46 AM
Miogaruna, excuse me, but in this case the Bop isn't OP...you are and also the entire TSI!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
05-29-2012, 04:58 AM
And anyway I want to admit that if you aren't an exceptional and skilled pilot, you can't fight effectively in a Bop, so congratulations to all the best Bops of the game!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
05-29-2012, 05:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_484
First, I'd like to start off with pointing out that this post could be interpreted as me "complaining about other complainers". However, I think it is important for me to do this because my complaining actually has one important goal and that is to make certain players understand that the Bird of Prey is NOT over powered.

I love pvping, I love pvping with my Klingon because I'm an idiot anti-conformist who always goes for the under dog and even though we wipe the floor with you Feds during PvP, over all this is YOUR game. You have more content, costumes, ships, etc. After levels of grinding (not sure if it's much grinding anymore, haven't leveled any toons since they levels for the kdf were cut) we develop some sort of hatred for Feds out of jealousy. It's kind of cool in a way, because as weird as it might sound it makes for great immersion being a Klingon - It's almost like we're being trained like soldiers to hate Feds and learn how to blow them up in the most effective way possible.

So when I PvP I like to have my black cat, Binx, lying on my lap while I stroke his black fur and grin as I take out Feds in one clean sweep with very little struggle. But sometimes, once in a while, and I'll use tonight as an example - I try to attack a player that I stand NO chance against.

I was playing Capture and Hold, taking out your escorts, cruisers, and even carriers with complete ease. I spotted a Caitian carrier making a cap, I began stroking Binx firmly as I powered up, decloaked and... got completely owned. I brought his shield facing down to little less than half, it powered right back up, I was caught in a mess of tractors beams, I spammed my eng batteries and evasive manuevers and he followed me just like Ricky, the kid that used to chase me and beat me up after school everyday and laugh with his demonic freckled face while he pounded me into submission. I cloaked thinking "okay, NOW I'm safe" I decloaked right away and Ricky... I mean the player of this carrier continued pounding on me and killed me. All of that happened in less than 30 seconds...

I tried convincing myself "Oh he was just lucky" I waited for all my cooldowns to finish and found him alone again, seeking revenge and gave it everything I got and... got completely owned again. I threw my head set on the ground, reached under Binx' belly and chucked him across my bedroom at a wall. I marched up to him and began pointing in his face, yelling and screaming all sorts of curses. I wasn't screaming because I lost though, I was screaming because even though I can usually blow up a Fed ship with ease there's some Feds who are just as capable, or even more capable at PvP than a Klingon. Feds have majority of the voice in the STO community so when they something in the other faction needs to be nerfed I get terrified that it might actually happen.

See, if my first run of attack doesn't blow you up quickly, I'm pretty much doomed. Sure, there might be some players that can survive and do fantastic dps in a BoP, but there's a lot of Defiant players who are the same way - In fact, I have a Fed tac in a defiant that I think could take out my BoP.

I can't speak for all BoP players when I say this - But even though we can take you out in one run doesn't mean it doesn't take a substantial amount of effort. Not only does your loadout has to be right, but the timing, the maneuvering - These are hit and run ships and if we can't run and don't get you on that initial alpha, we're screwed.
As primarily a Federation Player, Iíll attest to everything you stated. Iím one of those Dreadnaught Cruisers youíre, if alone, better off leaving alone or else. Two or three of you... well... I can run for a little while.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
05-29-2012, 05:59 AM
Yeah I never understood why people are like "omg bop is op op op!"

Frankly, if the bop doesn't kill me on his initial run, he's toast.
I fly Cruisers, Escorts and sci ships. Each of which is more than capable of withstanding bop fire.
Sure the BOP can take a hit or maybe two. But it's not going to take 3, or 4 hard smacks to the face. The Bop is a raider craft, however Escorts, and Cruisers in particular are full on Battleships.

Personally I prefer my Vorcha on the klink side of things. It's very robust, has a good turn rate, and can still do a pretty good clip for an alpha strike. And as I'm finishing my run I can set the stage with warp plas, for the bops or raptors to come in and get all rapey.
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