Go Back   Star Trek Online > Feedback > PvP Gameplay
Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
05-09-2012, 07:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radkip View Post
I don't like the idea of a DPS killing a tank with such ridiculous burst, but that's why I'm not a developer. I'm too closed minded for stuff like this, but from a casual standpoint it just doesn't seem fair that a healer can't protect themselves from just one high pressure target.
Console yourself, then, with the fact that you can: I proved last night that a sci can supertank through a full "oneshot" (and easily dodge the grenade, even of the perfect stealth oneshot, which makes the other half of the oneshot a minor concern). You have to know it's coming, and you need to start buffing a few seconds in advance, but those are achievable things.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
05-09-2012, 09:02 AM
I'd say the solution is to simply scale back all the abilities. Levelling my current character, I found that ground PvP is much more popular amongst lower level characters; it's only once I got into the Admiral ranks that it started to die off. There's a lesson there.

Ground PvP is more fun when it is mostly about shooting things; once it becomes a game about super powers, people start to lose interest. You can tell by the way casual players tend to have drawn out static hall fights, or 'bunker up' and hold a single room; while veteran PvPers more often charge around the map tearing apart entire teams at close quarters.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
05-09-2012, 10:36 AM
I like most of the OP's statements. I too hope they don't change ground too drasticly, or even the professions unless we are allowed to change our profession. I DO NOT want to have to start over again because they make my chosen profession unfun to my playstyle...again.

I would even support a removal of professions as a character bound thing and make it more like a skilled into or kit thing so we can change professions without starting over. Or at least let us trade our bound items and even accolades to a new character.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
05-09-2012, 01:57 PM
The classes are much more balanced than what anyone thinks. The balance is fragile and is part of the whole dance that occurs when two opponents meet. It doesn't mean that the balance is slightly shifted one way or the other depending on conditions. I think you would find that a Tactical Officer that is fully trained with passives, to do pure damage, is much weaker than what anyone thinks. Even with their absolute stealth, they are playing a fine timing game to get a one shot. One set of counters, from their opponent, and the one shot is no longer a guarantee.

With very fine tuned tactics a Tactical Officer can make preparations to increase this guarantee but player skill is what dictates that. What I most often see in the queues is pure Zerging. No attention is paid to the finer details or refining individual player skill.

I took a character to the Tribble server and did 273 respecs to find the balance between all the ground skills. I would admit, I probably need to do another 200 to finish off my tests. I have an excel spreadsheet that gives me the set of information. If I have a question about skill balance I usually consult my Excel spreadsheet to find those numbers. This information is about 1/10th of the information needed to build that perfect build. Timing comes to play in the setup as well as play style.

Furthermore I find a lot of player who started with one class trying to switch to a different one and finding it completely in adequate for them. It is because of that player's play style. No extensive time is spent learning the full range of that class. This tends to result in that player not knowing the full extent of the other class' capabilities and weaknesses. Furthermore not having that perfect "sweet" build might hinder you even further in discovering the possibilities.

Its a dance and currently this is how the classes compare:
  • Tactical Officer: Medium-High Peak damage with High sustainable damage. Medium Defensive capability with Low sustainable resistance and low peak resistance.
  • Engineer Officer: High Peak Damage with Low sustainable damage. High Peak Damage resistance Medium sustainable resistance.
  • Science Officer: Medium-Low Peak Damage and Medium Sustainable damage. Medium Peak resistance and High Sustainable resistance.

One point should be made here: The kits themselves are not balanced. As an Engineer, there isn't that "sweet" kit that works all the time, as there is on the Tactical Officer side. On the science side your diversity becomes limited once you are faced with raw damage coming at you. As a Science Officer you are much weaker than a Tactical Officer if you decide to do pure damage. And even then, your pure damage is not going to compare to the focused damage of a tactical officer. For the Tactical Officer the Omega Distortion + Fire Team Kit provides just too many advantages and options. For the Tactical Officer, diversity is limited.

The trick to killing your opponent is knowing how you can slot your advantage into the space and time of your opponents weaknesses. It doesn't mean that tweaking isn't needed. Rather the tweaking that is needed is subtle and small. In Duals a 1% difference can result in a massive change in the outcome.

And no one is even mentioning Traits. Those four little choices, you had to make in the beginning, when you made your character. Those traits can give you much more than just a 1% difference. Those choices are haunting most PvPers. We all have that one character, we had to stuff in the closet, since the traits are just messed up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Manx View Post
I'd say the solution is to simply scale back all the abilities. Levelling my current character, I found that ground PvP is much more popular amongst lower level characters; it's only once I got into the Admiral ranks that it started to die off. There's a lesson there.

Ground PvP is more fun when it is mostly about shooting things; once it becomes a game about super powers, people start to lose interest. You can tell by the way casual players tend to have drawn out static hall fights, or 'bunker up' and hold a single room; while veteran PvPers more often charge around the map tearing apart entire teams at close quarters.
I think for a large group of PvPers the complexity of the game is what makes it interesting. I don't need to "Aim" at you to shoot you, so there must be something else to make it more complex.

I did play at a low lvl PvP with one of my toons and found as many people making fundamental mistakes, in their PvP style. The lack of abilities just made it take longer for me to exploit their mistakes. The problem might be that too many people are learning their Zerg style from PvPing in the lower levels.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
05-09-2012, 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pug01

...

I think for a large group of PvPers the complexity of the game is what makes it interesting. I don't need to "Aim" at you to shoot you, so there must be something else to make it more complex.

I did play at a low lvl PvP with one of my toons and found as many people making fundamental mistakes, in their PvP style. The lack of abilities just made it take longer for me to exploit their mistakes. The problem might be that too many people are learning their Zerg style from PvPing in the lower levels.
I'm trying to look at it from the perspective of the people who gave up on it. The biggest problem with ground PvP, is that hardly anyone plays it; the system that the handful of current players like, has put off just about everyone else. That tells me the current system is wrong.

Ground combat in STO feels like a shooter, even if it isn't one; throw in aim mode, and it's pretty much like Mass Effect 1 (with a less touchy-feely cover system). That's how most people seem to want to play it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
05-09-2012, 04:34 PM
I got one.

Protected Spawns

For **** Sake, either give us totally randomized spawn points (like in halo. where the spawn point is locked off when an enemy is near it and it instead diverts you to the next closest), and more of them, or put down protection at each spawn.

PVP right now consists of BLAM shotgun Dead, run to spawn. then BLAM BLAM BLAM as everyone respawns.

Shotguns, they are ridiculous.
Conversely almost every other weapon blows chunks.

That being said.. the lolcryptic won't do any of this. Because they are a bargain bin company and not one to be taken seriously.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
05-09-2012, 08:38 PM
I would be interested in knowing, Pug, what you think of my thoughts about engineers in the opening post. The vast majority of my engineer experience comes from fighting them or observing them in a team situation, rather than playing as one, whereas you are an expert at playing them, as well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
05-09-2012, 09:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavairo
PVP right now consists of BLAM shotgun Dead, run to spawn. then BLAM BLAM BLAM as everyone respawns.

Shotguns, they are ridiculous.
Pulsewaves are popular, and for good reason: they have the highest-damage single-hit attack in the game, with a fantastic proc, as long as you are very close to your target.

That said, they are hardly necessary. Pulsewaves are definitely a part of my toolkit on both of my active ground characters, but I would guess that they are my fourth most commonly used weapon as a science officer, after the Federation Type 3 Phaser Rifle, the Compression Pistol, and the Omega Force Autocarbine. In serious team-based pvp, with me acting as primary healer for the team, I favor a Split Beam or Type 3 and an Omega Autocarbine (the latter present merely to provide its passive buff as part of the Omega set). In serious 1v1, I tend towards a compression pistol and either an Omega Autocarbine or a Stun Pistol - both of them serving to keep enemies from running away before I can finish them off, since healers lack an effective Hold power outside of whatever their guns give them. And as a Physicist, I do my best damage at the 30 meter range, as compared to tactical officers, Borg Medical Analyzer scis, and Engineers, who do their best damage within 10 meters - so it is in my interest to to all my fighting outside of pulsewave range, to begin with.

As a tactical officer, I usually like to have a pulsewave equipped, but once again, my Compression Pistol or Type 3 is my main gun. That said, some of the best tacs in the game forego pulsewaves altogether, in favor of double exploit guns - Type 3 / Compression Pistol, Compression/Sniper, Type 3 / Sniper, etc.

Engineers, whose best damage comes from mines and bombs at point blank range, will always be wanting a pulsewave, for its synergy at that range, and for its capacity to knock back enemies into waiting mines.

Other very effective guns include Sniper Rifles, Stun Pistols, the 'ghostbuster' Synchronic Proton Rifle, and Split Beam Rifles.

The less-effective guns include Dual Pistols, Full Autos, Blast Assaults, and Miniguns.

If you're interested in learning more, check out Pug's thread here: http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=265945
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
05-09-2012, 09:52 PM
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies. ~Alecto
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
05-09-2012, 10:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guriphu
4: Engies Need Some Love

B: Engineers are not survivable enough to fight effectively against a serious team with serious tacs.
Unfortunately, as the game stands, tactical officers can throw so much focused damage against a single target at a moment's notice that an engineer cannot sustain it for long enough to be useful, even running a fully tanking setup and supported by a medic.
I know engineers that tank crazy now, and lead in damage as well.

Quote:
Potential Solutions:
-Make shields better, either by adding capacity or by adding resistance. Engineers tank with their shields, so improving shields improves engineers.
-Make engineers' shield-boosting powers slightly better, especially on kits specifically dedicated to that purpose, like Equipment Technician.
The MACO set has already boosted the engineers' tanking ability.


Make active duty Doffs much more subtle in my opinion, and not stackable.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:21 AM.