Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
05-08-2012, 11:30 AM
I'll be glad to see the end of FEs, because it would at least end the pretense that Cryptic care about this game as anything other than a shallow grindy cash-cow to fund new Cryptic projects, and they needn't waste effort trying to defend their design decisions or intents (or lack thereof) for the game anymore.

It's all lockboxes and time-gated "content" that actively prevents a good many players from even accessing it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
05-08-2012, 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USS_Ultimatum
Let's recap:

> If they are too expensive to make then they need to re-evaluate their FE creation process.

> They refuse to put content in the store, people have said they would specifically pay for FE content (this would be a good place to give the content unlock to Lifer/Gold as part of the package, but paid for ala carte by Silver players, like myself)

> Instead of creating these FEs which are too expensive and they don't want to sell, they would rather not make this content that the playerbase clamors for at all.




Your customers love a product you make and constantly ask for it - instead you tell them you will not make it, you will not sell it to them and instead you will give them a different product that they did not ask for, and are not receiving well (time gated content).


I really wish I had something better to express my frustration and inability to comprehend these decisions they make, but unfortunately WTF!? is the only thing that keeps coming to mind.
Actually... now you mention it... This is quite well put. The question would become "what's the right price"?

I mean, is it fair to be asking subbers/lifers to be coughing up more cash to play new content? Or would the paid-entry only apply to silvers?

And even then, what would you consider a fair price?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
05-08-2012, 02:14 PM
What I really find funny (in a sad way) is:

DStahl hypes the hell out of Events and how great the events are (even though I'd say the majority of the STO playerbase that has commented DOESN'T CARE for time gated content (and MANY state they're unable to play this new content)...

Yet DStahal has zero issue devoting his limited Dev resources to vreating more time gated even content.

Then, when he gets to talking about FE's, suppossedly:

- They take a lot of Dev resources to make.

- They supposedly have data showing niot everyone plays them at release, and some wait untiil they have ganed some levels, or are at max level.

^^^^
And because of these factors, he likes to claim making more FEs are not a wise use of Dev resources because "not everybody plays them" (and even though every time an FE episode has been released; the servers are usually near crashing due to the concurrent player load; and A LOT of players who have taken months off from STO, return to play the new FE, etc.)

My questions:

- Why is iit NOT a waste a Dev resoources to produce content that is time gated; and due to the nature of the Event system, MANY players will not be able to play (and many are in fact frustrated by this very fact)?

- Why are FEs now considered such a waste of Dev resources when:

i) They up the number of concurrent players, and bring players back to the game - and as always, with more players, there's a better chance someone will decide to get something new from the C-Store, etc.)

ii) They make a vast majority of the existing playerbase that have stuck with the game happier, and more exsited to log in then teh time gated Event content does.?

^^^
How do the above positives equal a "waste of Dev resources" given all gthe positives FE's bring to the game when compared to the time gated Event content that a great many are dissastisfied with because they can't just log on and enjoy it, the way they can with always available content (like FEs)?


Also, as I recall, when Dan first started touting the new Events system; I got the impression was to get a few really good timed events that everyone liked - on to the event system to compliement teh always available content; yet somehow Cryptic decided to go overboard on the idea and make the vast majpority of all new content, time gated Event content; and now there's so much time gated content, you can't fit an instance of the popular content at all times of the day, ESPECIALLY when they keep rotating the Event content I think most don't care about any longer like:

- "Time to Craft" (Seriously, with the Crafting system as it is now, and the addition of Doff missions that take former crafting anomolies and gives 250 Dilithium/and the Rare Particles and gives 500 Dilithium; does anyone bother with the crafting system at all anymore?).

- The Path to 2409 (Really? You guys waste an hour of the Event Calendar giving out a whole 2 'datachips' for a Lore event which anyoone who plays for Dilithium juist browses to the STOWiki Lore page to get the right answer in two mouse clicks?)

^^^
It seems with all teh new Event content, these two Events could be dropped from tjhe rotation, and I think more players than not would applaud that we had more timeslots to add the Events people might actually want to play (and that require them to play an actual mission.)

Then there's:

- The Defera Invasion Event (You balloned this to 3 hours - up from 2 - because you decided to spend your limited Dev resources adding 15 new side missions to this time gated event that I'd say not a lot of people can play.

So yes, it seems interesting and sort of a dissconnect (IMO) that Dan doesn't think FE's are that good a use of resources bssed on data mined play patterns from the most recent one - yet has no issues commiting the same limited Dev resources to craeting time gated Event content that A LOT of people also can''t (or don't) play because they can't or won't schedule their life around a video game. (Not to mention the Calendar only shows the next 12 hours; AND you have to be in game to be able to see said schedule (IE there's no info on the main STO website regarding the daily in game Event schedule.)

Yep, IMO - the excuses made for discontinuing FEs is a weak one indeed; and makes little sense, giiven what they DO have their 'limited Dev resources' working on - mission content wise; and the amount of players we've seen long in (or come back to play STO again) when a new FE episode is released.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
05-08-2012, 02:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
If we allow eastern F2P practices to take root, it will spread to other western games.

This actually gives us common ground with people who don't play STO, who don't necessarily want to play STO, and with those players backing us up, we can swarm PWE with complaints until they recognize that Cryptic needs to pursue a different model.

And I'm not saying that Cryptic is or isn't making their own decisions here. I'm saying that it doesn't matter if we can get the numbers and express dissatisfaction in ways that will cause PWE to lean on Cryptic to adjust course.

PWE wants to expand its marketshare in the west. A game like STO (and to a lesser extent Champs) is a test case of that because it doesn't really have a market outside the west. We need to make clear that they don't expand in the west by having games that are run like Forsaken World in the west, that business models need to be culturally and geographically specific. That human nature and psychological studies and quantitative metrics used will not trump the specific kind of consumerism that we have here.

We're westerners first, humans second. Start operating like a western company. Read some Warren Buffet. Look at what Jimmy Buffet does for his concerts. Get into the artfully crafted service experience that targets people of all classes. Make customers feel like VIPs. Gauge our happiness. Reinvest. Shoot for critical as well as commercial success or risk being a bubble industry. You can shoot for Michael Bay-type theatrics but Michael Bay or Zach Snyder and that will work in the west but that style of entertainment is bubble based, flash-in-the-pan and alternates between huge successes and huge failures. In the end, look at how Apple treats its consumers, how Blizzard treats its consumers, the service experience at a Red Lobster or a TGIF, the Sharper Image or SkyMall model of luxury. The Target model over the K-Mart model.

We pay $5 for a coffee and $15 for a movie ticket here. People in China pay twice that but that's the upper class. Our lower class does that here. We buy junk even when we can't afford to buy good food or pay our bills because we want to feel like special, unique snowflakes. I genuinely idealize that aspect of western culture. I'm glad to see it taking root more in the east in the last few decades.

I LOVE how we pay to feel special. I like working jobs where my target and the company's target is based around making people feel special -- and being willing to comp a sale to do it -- secure in the quasi-religious knowledge that making people feel special is the business model and it's worth giving away product to keep people happy and coming back and bragging to their friends about you. I like paying to feel special. I like working to make people feel special in business. I believe in the fine art of service... and the personal relationship will trump any metric you can gather.

I'm sure Cryptic is doing better now than they did under Atari or when they were an indy studio after their break with NCSoft. But they were wrong in what they were setting out to be and all the advice from PWE does is make them better at doing something they were wrong to pursue being in the first place.

I want to see Cryptic start engaging in art outside of the visual arts side of their company, become a company whose brand identity is intertwined with a mission statement of creating happiness, adopt a right brained, service oriented feng shui model. I KNOW that they have this internally in their corporate culture but this needs to become the cornerstone of their products and their business models and their customer relationships.
Here Here. If we don't don't stop it almost all MMOs will be F2P grind fests in a few years. As much as I hear people putting down WoW (maybe because it is cool to do so IDK) I never fells like a grind.

STO holds a lot of promise, sadly I don't think PW or CBS are willing or able to let it be what it could be. I think there needs to be a MASS hiring of developers, testers, programers, candlestick makers. I think the main issue is lack of people. You hear all the time of companies firing programmers. Why not scoop some of these people up.

I would like STO going toe-to-toe with SWTOR. But that will never happen unless there is a MASSIVE push of resources into the game. We need at least 2 more full factions, better interiors, quadruple the story content.

Time-gated content is a weak tempt to extend play time. Random encounters like borg invasion is once thing but end game raids? no, no, no. Right now, truth be told the DoFF system which is brilliant is helping, but it's not a permanent fix.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
05-09-2012, 12:43 AM
Just have to say that I love FE's and STF's as a form of content. STF's are a nice way to group up for missions and the mix of random PUG and form-your-own-group options is perfect. FE's are great for playing at my own pace and getting away from the STF grind.

We could use more of both of them. Doing the same handful of STF's over and over gets really, really bad quickly. They are not content heavy things. In fact, the space ones look like they took about 5 minutes in the Foundry to make, in their current form. The FE's are usually much more story and content intensive, which is good.

The time-gated events are pretty much useless to me. I have an infant daughter and work second shift. Scheduling my day around an arbitrary time-gated mission just isn't going to happen, ever. My main play time is 1am to 6am CDT (11pm to 4am PDT). Half the time it feels like the game servers are down when I try to log in. And when I do get in, all the events are pretty lame. Crafting, racing... maybe a mirror universe or broken borg invasion event if I'm lucky. Even then, I basically ignore it because they're pointless... unless I'm extremely bored and Mirror Universe happens to be up. It's just a frag-fest in there at VA. Hardly a challenge even in a random PUG.

Just my opinion. Carry on.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36 Love FEs
05-09-2012, 06:06 AM
I think many of us like the FEs and like the solo missions, you could say to end the FEs would be the end of STO as we know it.

Perhaps its time to I stop buying c points as that is the message Crytpic understands.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
05-09-2012, 06:51 AM
Quote:
Each series has been excessively more expensive to make than the last and so there is an evaluation going on to determine the relative development scope of adding new single player story missions to the game. You’ll see us start to answer this question in earnest after the release of Season 6 which is focused on Fleets and group based Fleet Gameplay.
Wow... I never thought I'd see that... So rather than say... "Kiss your missions goodbye you stupid solo players" it's "You'll get the answer in season 6 where there's absolute nothing for people who aren't in a moderate sized active fleet or who dislike forced team content". There's your answer right there... answered in EARNEST too!

For what it's worth, and from my guess probably not worth a thing... that "single player story mission" content was the most enjoyable part of the game you guys put out! I'm sorry if that offends you because you feel that the only content worth creating is content that has a dozen different hoops to jump through to play.

Do you guys really feel that content which is available only at specific times and requires finding 4 other guys with functioning brain cells with an internet connections is the end all and be all of Star Trek gaming? Do you honestly believe that because your internal data is showing a lot of people are endlessly grinding away on the STFs for costume pieces and accolades that they're doing it because they enjoy that style of play?

Never before have I felt there is a greater disconnect between what the dev team thinks and what the average STO player wants... Here's a hint... People play STO because they love STAR TREK... make more missions that give us the feeling we're part of the Star Trek Universe.

Please, someone tell me I'm the victim of some kind of dimensional accident and I ended up in an alternate universe and that there's still hope.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
05-09-2012, 06:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blakes_7 View Post
I think many of us like the FEs and like the solo missions, you could say to end the FEs would be the end of STO as we know it.

Perhaps its time to I stop buying c points as that is the message Crytpic understands.
Some of us are WAY ahead of you... H*ll... there are even some who have boycutted the C-Store entirely so they even dont use their Stipends either...

I agree with your idea...

When we get content, Buy and use C-Points... when we get Lockboxes before content... dont buy and use C-Points.

However, you will never catch the entire community... But if everyone on the forums would just avoid buying anything related to the C-Store for at least a month... That should send a message.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
05-09-2012, 07:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trueheart
Wow... I never thought I'd see that... So rather than say... "Kiss your missions goodbye you stupid solo players" it's "You'll get the answer in season 6 where there's absolute nothing for people who aren't in a moderate sized active fleet or who dislike forced team content". There's your answer right there... answered in EARNEST too!
Seriously, I don't think they even bothered to playtest the Cardassian FEs. Just try playing Of Bajor or Boldly They Rode with a team of more than 1 player. There will be at least 3 points in the those missions where your progress just starts running off in different directions.

Of Bajor is the biggest offender. EACH player has to turn in the sub-objectives on their own, AND must be sure to pick up the EXACT SAME sub-objective as the rest of the team, or they fall behind. There's no way for the other players to know, and there's no way to "Share" the sub-objectives either.

They can barely make a multiplayer mission as it is, and they want to forgo singleplayer missions?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
05-09-2012, 07:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matri View Post
Seriously, I don't think they even bothered to playtest the Cardassian FEs. Just try playing Of Bajor or Boldly They Rode with a team of more than 1 player. There will be at least 3 points in the those missions where your progress just starts running off in different directions.

Of Bajor is the biggest offender. EACH player has to turn in the sub-objectives on their own, AND must be sure to pick up the EXACT SAME sub-objective as the rest of the team, or they fall behind. There's no way for the other players to know, and there's no way to "Share" the sub-objectives either.

They can barely make a multiplayer mission as it is, and they want to forgo singleplayer missions?

I'm not usually one to give into conspiracy theories, but the last FE was so bad it could be argued it was done that way to intentionally justify eliminating FEs altogether. Someone, somewhere can point to how much it cost to make it then how poorly it was received and then justify their elimination.

I remember when the first few FEs came out. They were the most universally loved aspect of the game, I remember sitting outside Eta Eridani with dozens of other players, everyone excited about getting to Deferi. Or the impromptu party in the admiral's office waiting for the mission to go live. I remember bumping into some players that I hadn't saw in weeks there, in some ways it felt almost like a reunion. Those were the good times in the game...

Story missions need to be the core focus of the game, not the only focus but that's what they need to draw people into the game with...
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