Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,562
Yes devs, adding HP and damage is not the way to make a fun and challenging gameplay experience. I think that these videos explain why.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWFzFsHc75U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea6UuRTjkKs

The sad part is... you've already provided us the tools to tackle the fun and challenging stuff with. You just didn't add much to use the tools on. Things that we'd make good use of in an "engaging" difficulty. I'm talking about the abilities and equipment we use for our starships. Our defensive Science skills, our Sci & Eng consoles, our grossly underused BOFF powers. There's a reason why we don't use some of them. And I think it's the same reason that DPS outvalues the rest. You don't give us a reason to use any of them. Instead, we get a "punishing" difficult. I mean, why even have Power Insulators when they'd still leave us with 0 shields after a Borg shield drain?

You were on the right track with, say, the revamped Mirror Invasion. No 288k HP ships to throw insane DPS at, no insta-kills to try (and fail) to tank. We actually had to use strategy. We had to take aggro from each other. We had to protect the starbase. We had to tend to the portals and generators. Yes, it wasn't the ideal way to give us better gameplay, but dammit you were on to something!

...but then Delta Rising happened. The queue system fell to pieces. While it was good that you turned the previous optional conditions into mandatory ones and gave us new optionals to work toward, the HP and damage scaling ruined it. Little effort was made to create content that would reflect the tools you want us to bring to the missions with. And Borticus, we know, making decent A.I. isn't easy. But it's what the game NEEDS.

And what's worse is that increasing the HP of your enemies demands mainly one thing from your players - DPS. The very thing that was already too in-demand. Instead of fixing one problem, the HP/damage scaling merely added to another. Assuming of course those with the highest DPS could deal with the insane HP in the first place.

So devs... try to look at it this way. If the only solution we have remaining is to keep getting stronger firepower to overcome these walls with engines attached to them, our experience with the game isn't going to be a pleasant one.

Don't get me wrong, devs. You know I love you guys and I appreciate all the work you're doing to make this game better. And I recognize that you took on a lot of projects for Delta Rising to be a reality. But now that it's out, I feel that this issue should take top priority. We got the hints of a skill revamp in season 10. That should be the perfect time to finally balance the game.

Just my thoughts.


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Last edited by orangeitis; 10-15-2014 at 06:36 PM. Reason: Subspace editting anomaly
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 589
# 2
10-15-2014, 03:22 PM
Whilst I've not always agreed with the OP's point of view. This time I do. Cryptic have essentially turned the STF's into an even bigger DPS race than before. The new revamped mirror invasion was a perfect example of a step in the right direction.
Those that can, will and those that can't will Aux2bat everything or cry "Nerf"
I've three manned CGE & IGE, two manned KAGE (both Pre & Post Rep nerf). Also two manned IGN all with optionals, Completed IGE with 9:27 left on the optional timer, more recently completed IGA with 7:13 left on the optional timer
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 58
# 3
10-15-2014, 05:08 PM
I totally agree with the OP and i can only hope that this criticism will get noticed.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,499
# 4
10-15-2014, 05:13 PM
Why do the forums not have a +Like button?
I am the STO Lorax. I picked myself up and left, until the day the fun is replanted.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,939
# 5
10-15-2014, 05:17 PM
OP is right. Borticus, I know you said making awesome AI would take too much work, but it would certainly improve gameplay.

No, adding more skills doesn't equate an HP boost, not by a longshot. Most of the builds Geko says can breeze through an STF wouldn't last a second in PvP. In PvE they seldom have to worry about scramble sensors, FBP, subnuc beam, and other serious threats to their one trick pony builds.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 204
# 6
10-15-2014, 09:02 PM
Much like some other developers cryptic took the easy way out and simply increased enemy hp and damage and called it a greater challenge.

Sure enemy hp did need to go up because elites were a joke once you started filling in with rep gear and fleet gear but these advanced queues way overdid it with some enemies. Borg bird of prey and spheres should not have over 600k hull hp and tough shields.

The dilithium nerf was just a blow below the belt the estf before the change were already not a very good way to farm dilithium. At 960 dilithium per run plus marks and implants doing all 4 estf would net you around 5500 dilithium and then you had to wait 1 hour before running all 4 again.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,276
# 7
10-15-2014, 09:10 PM
The damage issue has had some really unfortunate side effects over time. It didn't appear suddenly today out of no where, it has been building for a while.

People call it whales vs free or elite vs casual, but neither is correct. It used to be "escorts online", then "tactical or gtfo". Which is why the vesta and dyson science ships had to be built as escorts with toys. Its why we use aux2bat. At the heart of it all, the truth is really damage vs no damage. You can dump a ton of cash and do crap damage, this is where we got the term "scimitard". You can grind for hours, have no life but the game, and be totally sucking. The difference comes down to damage, and the fact that with more damage you can earn more rewards in less time. From this comes elitism, resent ment, jealousy, massive wealth differences, and balance becomes impossible

From this divide in the community has sprung some of the most hateful posts I've seen on the forums. And it is getting to where there are people who functionally cannot play the same content. Not just queues either, its the story missions. Try this, take a level 52 character into an old mission, say skirmish. Check the Axion's HP. I've seen a screenshot today of a ddridex in the level 30 romulan story arc at level 52 with 303,000 HP. The guy started a new alt with the double exp event and that's where he's at today.

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...1&postcount=19

Pretend you're a new player with only dropped gear, you don't even know what fleets and rep are. We all know you hit 50 before you reach the dyson story missions. Especially with the double exp event that just ended. How are those players supposed to have fun?

There are people who after a year can't get more than 2k damage out of a lockbox ship. And then there are the guys who did elite queues in teams of all tier 1 ships. Because of the difference in these groups we have at the same time threads calling the advanced queues too hard and gecko telling us teams are farming elite too easily (and I saw those guys on tribble so I know he's telling the truth). And I was on teams doing advanced Borg disconnected with all optionals in non 5u ships.

The difference between the top and the bottom is too great. The gap has to close.

Last edited by gavinruneblade; 10-15-2014 at 09:23 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 910
# 8
10-15-2014, 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucho80 View Post
OP is right. Borticus, I know you said making awesome AI would take too much work, but it would certainly improve gameplay.

No, adding more skills doesn't equate an HP boost, not by a longshot. Most of the builds Geko says can breeze through an STF wouldn't last a second in PvP. In PvE they seldom have to worry about scramble sensors, FBP, subnuc beam, and other serious threats to their one trick pony builds.
Holy cow some of those new NPC's are science spamming like crazy. In patrol mission I was getting subnuke and scammbled like crazy - every 10 seconds with 3 ships attacking I was getting scrambled!

Adding FBP in there would make it better! (and by that I mean more irritating)
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,276
# 9
10-15-2014, 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spacebaronline View Post
Holy cow some of those new NPC's are science spamming like crazy. In patrol mission I was getting subnuke and scammbled like crazy - every 10 seconds with 3 ships attacking I was getting scrambled!

Adding FBP in there would make it better! (and by that I mean more irritating)
Have you watched the voth at the end of the undine battle zone where they send in waves of ships for 5 minutes? Most people don't, but spend a moment some time to watch them without fighting. It is very elegant.

First frigates come in, but not all at once. Two sets about a second apart. Just long enough (I'm sure intentionally) that if you launch torp spread it only targets the first ones. If you wait a moment, or have bad reflexes you can catch both. But then they all use the Picard maneuver, breaking your targeting and unload their aoe engine/weapon scramble. They come out of cloak in the middle of the PC defenders right as cruisers and bulwarks appear in a ring around the outside and pop their invulnerability shields facing the first ship that grabs aggro. Then it devolves into a dogfight. After two waves of this, they change it up and before the cruisers appear a dreadnaught shows up in the middle.

That is actually solid ai scripting. Someone at cryptic, i think borticus, deserves credit for a job well done on that. Shame they can't use their powers smart enough to take advantage of the setup.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,046
# 10
10-15-2014, 09:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gavinruneblade View Post
The difference between the top and the bottom is too great. The gap has to close.
The gap is designed in. Leveling, rep passivess, rep gear, fleet gear, its all baked into the design. The only way to "fix" it is to compress the power band, but they are doing everything opposite to that. I mean, come on, they just addeed new level 60 and T6 ships and Mk XIV gear, they're not going to compress anything, they only know how to make money by spreading it out.

And the OP is the biggest apologist for them on the boards so ... no sympathy at all. Take your own advice, play everything on Normal with free gear. ITS ALL OPTIONAL YOU DONT HAVE TO PLAY
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