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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
05-09-2012, 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmeagolSneak View Post

Science requires team play to be epic, right now my fleet has a build that is stacked with heals that can also leave a target completely helpless with minimal shields for a few seconds perfect for and escort to finish.
You are right that it can be useful and you do have some excellent set ups but as you say the situation in which it is useful has gotten way to specific, ie that you need a very specfic team build for it to work

Examples
Escort best thing solo PvE and STF , a Sci ship is poor
In Kerrat Tac, Escort Best thing, sci ship very poor
Cap and hold, Escort great, sci ship not so good
Arena Puging, Escort great , sci ship not very good
General Premade, Escort Great, sci/sci not as useful as a sciscort or sci/cruiser
Specific Specialist build premade Escort Great, Sci/sci useful , but not essential you can build a top premade with no sci ships


The vast majority of the players would be better not using a sci ship at all and for the vast majority of the content of the game you would be better using anything else it really needs fixing
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
05-10-2012, 01:39 AM
When we put a premade out, its sad to say the sci ship would always be the weak link in its current state as the only useful thing it only brings to the team now is the photonic shock wave. That isnt enough for us to justify it in our team builds anymore. The rest of the abilities are as about as useful as a chocolate fireguard.

My advice:

Mothball the sci ship for now. Pray Cryptic fix science abilities as a whole and maybe soon it can come out again.

Cryptic:

A lot of people are getting tired of stf's now. They need an alternative. I believe that with the right attention to pvp, it could become the best alternative to the stf's. If not, you'll haemorrhage a lot of your customers to other upcoming mmo's and newly introduced ones like star wars. I know you dont want this and i definately don't.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
05-10-2012, 03:08 AM
Jeez... I feel compelled to stand up for the poor science ships now. :p

I run a CC build. Against player ships, it only really works if I catch them off guard (but I do have the occasional success); it works great on pets though. I've started to think of 'CC' meaning 'Carrier Control', because that's what it's best at.

Having me along is like having a submarine destroyer in a flotilla; a bit specialized, but handy none the less.

Mind you, I do die a lot once my opponents decide they've had enough of me corralling their little friends into black holes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
05-10-2012, 04:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian334
Sci/scorts and Sci/cruisers are fine. What about Sci/Sci? We have a third class of ships which are now only represented in game by noobs and the Atrox.
Well, the Nebula seems a good options since it is a science ship, with the usual science abilities, but plays like a cruiser and can almost be set up like one.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
05-10-2012, 04:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reyan01
Well, the Nebula seems a good options since it is a science ship, with the usual science abilities, but plays like a cruiser and can almost be set up like one.
But the oddy handles better with saucer sep
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
05-10-2012, 05:03 AM
The only sci ships worth anything now are Carriers, MVAMs and BOPS... and those have nothing to do with being useful due to their sci abilities.

My MVAM's primary job is to Murder People. I have VM and TBR1 on it, VM for shutting people down to at least somewhat slow healing down, and TBR to kill carrier pets, and maybe get some lucky tac buffed up 10k TBR crits.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
05-10-2012, 05:45 AM
Remember fewer Sci ships means fewer copies of science team. So Sub Nuc and VM get to be a real pain. If you time your attacks so that they use up their Sci team you'll be in a better place. Doffs to lower the cool down on subsystem targeting works well. Don't use beam abilities, use the inherent abilities as often as possible. Use torpedo spread not tactical teams.

So say your going to use GW. Great use a spread of chronitons, subsystem target engines, and GW. Pile it all on at once. Let them start to deal with that with some buffs and now drop the subnuc on them. If its a carrier and they pop out refresh spawn it goes right in the GW, and in any case you have another launch of torpedo spread coming up too. Just as an example, could be any ship.

So work those Sci abilities in tandem at least and use the inherent subsystem targeting to its fullest!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
05-10-2012, 06:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thissler
Remember fewer Sci ships means fewer copies of science team. So Sub Nuc and VM get to be a real pain. If you time your attacks so that they use up their Sci team you'll be in a better place. Doffs to lower the cool down on subsystem targeting works well. Don't use beam abilities, use the inherent abilities as often as possible. Use torpedo spread not tactical teams.

So say your going to use GW. Great use a spread of chronitons, subsystem target engines, and GW. Pile it all on at once. Let them start to deal with that with some buffs and now drop the subnuc on them. If its a carrier and they pop out refresh spawn it goes right in the GW, and in any case you have another launch of torpedo spread coming up too. Just as an example, could be any ship.

So work those Sci abilities in tandem at least and use the inherent subsystem targeting to its fullest!
Ever tried that in a premade lately? Nice theory, bad practice. I spent a week trying to get my sci to work with god knows how many respecs. I dont like giving up but that task felt like i was ****ing in the wind. I know my greatest assett in a premade is sci and even i failed miserably to make it more than just an annoyance ship to the enemy.

When i see another premade running science ships, the bullseye is on them automatically. I know they wont harm me but without full team support, they drop like flies. Best defence is an offence and what offence do sci sci's give apart from snb and shockwave? Might as well become a sci MVAM. At least you'll do dps.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
05-10-2012, 06:26 AM
I'd be willing to bet my tac mvam, is as effective as a full on sci sci ship now for taking people out, debuffing, and crowd control.

After all I have, the best sci boff in the game Viral Matrix, and CC/DPS with TBR1. Then I have CSV2, and the whole host of murderous tac powers.

Also VM isnt' cleared by Sci team Thissler, it's cleared by Eng Team, or a battery (the former only clears the immediate shutdowns, not subsequent ones, and the latter only protects one sub system)

Also, Naz don't sell your scorts short. The only reason you don't feel your contributions that much is the host of other escorts you have in your team. Very hard to be the 3rd escort in a team and have good #s. Watch your #s with a 2 escort or 1 escort team, and then compare them to the other guys.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
05-10-2012, 06:39 AM
I always wanted Science Resists, but I was thinking more of the way it works for Scramble and Photonic Shockwave - after you have been affected by a science resistable power, you gain the resistance.

So, that's my solution:

When a Science Power affects a target, the target gains resistance to subsequent uses of this and similar powers for the duration of the initial effect plus 15 seconds. This resistance does not affect the initial triggering effect, only subsequent ones. The resistance is determined as it is now.

Now, there is no chain-use of powers - your team must be versatile and cannot rely on just spamming one power over and over again. But using a power on its own is effective.

Examples:
  • The first Charged Particle Burst deals full shield drain. WIthin the next 15 seconds, any CPB or Tachyon Beam hitting you is reduce in effect according to your resistance to drains.
  • You are hit by Tractor Beam that lasts 12 seconds. You can immediately resistance to Tractor Beams for 27 seconds according to your resistance to holds.

(Note that this still leaves a "nerf" for people that used to combine Tachyon Beam and Charged Particle Burst. I think that is something people may be able to deal with better than having both powers nerfed across the board and still gives plenty of room for valid builds.)
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