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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
05-10-2012, 07:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
I always wanted Science Resists, but I was thinking more of the way it works for Scramble and Photonic Shockwave - after you have been affected by a science resistable power, you gain the resistance.

So, that's my solution:

When a Science Power affects a target, the target gains resistance to subsequent uses of this and similar powers for the duration of the initial effect plus 15 seconds. This resistance does not affect the initial triggering effect, only subsequent ones. The resistance is determined as it is now.

Now, there is no chain-use of powers - your team must be versatile and cannot rely on just spamming one power over and over again. But using a power on its own is effective.

Examples:
  • The first Charged Particle Burst deals full shield drain. WIthin the next 15 seconds, any CPB or Tachyon Beam hitting you is reduce in effect according to your resistance to drains.
  • You are hit by Tractor Beam that lasts 12 seconds. You can immediately resistance to Tractor Beams for 27 seconds according to your resistance to holds.

(Note that this still leaves a "nerf" for people that used to combine Tachyon Beam and Charged Particle Burst. I think that is something people may be able to deal with better than having both powers nerfed across the board and still gives plenty of room for valid builds.)
Just to be clear: are you proposing increasing the effectiveness of sci powers, and then changing the way they are resisted?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
05-10-2012, 08:02 AM
actually CPB and Tachyon beam together doesn't necessarily bother me, providing there is a small passive resist against sci skills. (like 20 percent resistance)
You sacrifice ALOT to get TB3, CPB3 and PSW on a sci ship.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
05-10-2012, 08:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manx View Post
Just to be clear: are you proposing increasing the effectiveness of sci powers, and then changing the way they are resisted?
No, the science powers would work as now, except that their first use is unresisted (which, AFAIK, things were before the balance tweak for F2P). I think Science worked rather fine at tha tpoint, but the total lack of resistance was problematic and lead to lame and frustrating tactics.

Instead of applying all the time, resistances only applies in a window where you gain resistance to a power, similar to how Stuns (Photonic Shockwave) and Confuses (Scramble Sensors) work right now, except it's "just" a resistance, not an immunity.

This may only be the first step, though. It could very well be that some powers still need additional tweaking (Gravity Well?).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
05-10-2012, 08:08 AM
Better yet do Mustrums idea, but keep Tachyon beam and CPB on seperated resistances, just add a five second global between all offensive sci powers. The spam problem is addressed, as is their sheer power.

An elegant and simple fix.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
05-10-2012, 08:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavairo
I'd be willing to bet my tac mvam, is as effective as a full on sci sci ship now for taking people out, debuffing, and crowd control.

After all I have, the best sci boff in the game Viral Matrix, and CC/DPS with TBR1. Then I have CSV2, and the whole host of murderous tac powers.

Also VM isnt' cleared by Sci team Thissler, it's cleared by Eng Team, or a battery (the former only clears the immediate shutdowns, not subsequent ones, and the latter only protects one sub system)

Also, Naz don't sell your scorts short. The only reason you don't feel your contributions that much is the host of other escorts you have in your team. Very hard to be the 3rd escort in a team and have good #s. Watch your #s with a 2 escort or 1 escort team, and then compare them to the other guys.
Thanks Mav. I am very happy with my tac scort. I'm usually targetted first when i pug for obvious reasons :-) I meant although i may be good or adequate at all 3 classes in almost all premades, i feel that i can bring or should i say brought the most of my skills to a premade via my sci sci where i popped the right skill off by instinct rather than practice.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
05-10-2012, 08:26 AM
I agree with Smeagol. Science has been overpowered for too long. Now... its just normal. U can still do great with science in PvE. Also in pvp. The current state of science is not good for premade (if we exclude snb). Lack of science "ovepowerness" somehow came at the same time when lots of premades left, or stopped playing. I guess they can be also friends in other games. Have a nice get toghether. We were witnessing ppl leaving game when their gameplay was affected. Happened before and it will happen in future. (target sub, faw) But its good for overall PvP experience (excluding runabots and tachyon drones/siphons). Finally, some new, decent player will surface, and learn new rules. Its called progress. And yes, this is coming from a fellow science officer, which like to fly sci ships most, but it doesnt doing it, cos the rules changed, and the process of adapting is ongoing.
And to answer op question directly. You can do it, by announcing to your escort team mate, that are u about to fire viral matrix to target X.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
05-10-2012, 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
No, the science powers would work as now, except that their first use is unresisted (which, AFAIK, things were before the balance tweak for F2P). I think Science worked rather fine at tha tpoint, but the total lack of resistance was problematic and lead to lame and frustrating tactics.

Instead of applying all the time, resistances only applies in a window where you gain resistance to a power, similar to how Stuns (Photonic Shockwave) and Confuses (Scramble Sensors) work right now, except it's "just" a resistance, not an immunity.

This may only be the first step, though. It could very well be that some powers still need additional tweaking (Gravity Well?).
Hmmm...

My first thought was 'That sounds pretty good!'.

My second thought was 'Wait, how is it fair that an escort or BoP can unload CRF into me as much as he likes, but I can only hit him with a shield drain once?'.

Those resistances would have to be applied individual power by individual power, and synced to the cooldowns of the caster; so that multiple scis can't chain spam the same ability on you over and over, but a single sci is never denied their powers.

Nice idea overall though.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
05-10-2012, 09:41 AM
They nerfed sci because 2-3 scis on a team was devastating. I mean, 2-3 ships can take down everyone's shields (CPB), hit them with massive aoe kinetic damage (PSW), and then let the escort mop up the rest. Every 45 seconds, the enemy team loses at least 1 player to this. Meanwhile, those scis are in healing mode, with powerful heals to keep themselves and their teammates alive until the next CPB/PSW combo comes up. It needed a nerf.

However, it got crushed, with the only viable harassment skills for a sci ship being PSW, TracBeam, TBR, and perhaps Scramble Sensors. These skills aren't really that worth it.

I think a short-duration resistance to multiple copies of a sci skill might work. This prevents multiple sci ships from chaining combos that are too powerful, while strengthening the power of a single sci ship.

NOTE: Sci captains are fine, maybe just a tad weak. This is all about sci ships.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
05-10-2012, 10:02 AM
It's not just a nice theory. It actually works. I'm sorry that it doesn't work for you in premades. I don't know if that is because as a Sci you get focused fired or if that is because you focus fire enemy Sci's. A Sci in an escort of any type is going to feel GREAT! Science captain abilities are just the bee knees when combined with the burst dps inherent in an escort. There's absolutely no denying that.

Sorry the aim of the OP wasn't to clear to me. It seemed like he was new to PvP and wanted some advice on how to get the most out of his ship and captain for the ques he was running. I know it said "team play' but even pugs put you on a team. As part of a premade you say it doesn't work well okay then it doesn't work.

The best defense isn't a good offense. The best defense is the best defense. I think basketball might be an exception. There's a game that punishes defensive tactics and rewards offensive tactics. STO not so much. STO actually rewards a defensive style of play.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
05-10-2012, 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thissler
It's not just a nice theory. It actually works. I'm sorry that it doesn't work for you in premades. I don't know if that is because as a Sci you get focused fired or if that is because you focus fire enemy Sci's. A Sci in an escort of any type is going to feel GREAT! Science captain abilities are just the bee knees when combined with the burst dps inherent in an escort. There's absolutely no denying that.

Sorry the aim of the OP wasn't to clear to me. It seemed like he was new to PvP and wanted some advice on how to get the most out of his ship and captain for the ques he was running. I know it said "team play' but even pugs put you on a team. As part of a premade you say it doesn't work well okay then it doesn't work.

The best defense isn't a good offense. The best defense is the best defense. I think basketball might be an exception. There's a game that punishes defensive tactics and rewards offensive tactics. STO not so much. STO actually rewards a defensive style of play.
And that goes to show that you didn't even read the thread. This thread is about Science SHIPS!. Not captains!

SHIPS! Get that?

Science captains are viable and will stay that way as long as SNB is such an important power for landing a kill.

This thread is addressing how the majority of science powers are mostly worthless in pvp due to nerfs/massive resistances to them.
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