Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 251
05-13-2012, 04:06 PM
I don't have much to contribute to this thread at this time in terms of practical changes, especially since I hardly ever PvP, but I appreciate your frankness, and hope it continues. Thank you.

That said, I have heard calls for more areas like Ker'rat. I would suggest that you make a few more of those zones whether or not the Fed vs. Klingon war continues. Call them 'war game zones' or something like that, as opposed to ONLY having PvP queues. That said, the queues are fine, but more PvP plus PvE areas would probably do you a world of good, and I would imagine (emphasis imagine as I don't know much about STO's guts) that it would be little effort for relatively high short-term return and worthwhile long-term return.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 252
05-13-2012, 05:05 PM
Some suggestions:-
1: Rewards
a) Give XP, Miltary CXP (say about 50-100) and EC (about 10,000 and VA) rewards for destruction of player ships.
b) Similarly give XP and Engineering and medical CXP (10-30) for repairing a damaged friendly ship. Maybe with an accolade thrown in.
c) Whilst I believe both teams should get the normal mission rewards at the end of the match, the victors should get much much more then the losers.
d) Special PvP only rewards, perhaps opened by the PvP accolades.

2: More Maps
To be frightfully honest, I am really really bored playing the same set of space maps.

3: Ability to kick AFKers
Seriously, these are a menace. Since Kerrat became a daily, the gold miners have took to the PvP queues leeching off their team. I've actually felt like asking asking everyone to warp out and continue the match as a private challenge, just so that AFKer won't get any credit.

Perhaps after 5 kicks give them a PvP ban for 1 day.

4: Seperate queues for premades or at the very least a system that prefers to put two premades together, rather then a premade Vs pug match.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 253
05-13-2012, 06:21 PM
Late to the party - I seriously dislike the idea of losing factional PvP. Period. Its just not what I want to be reading. Removing factional PvP from an MMO makes it less valuable, less important. It becomes a game within a game, a meaningless exercise, a frivolous past-time. Loss of Lore and loss of familiarity. It's just an overreaction imho.

ADD non-factional events, such as an adaptation of CO's Zombie Apocalypse (except with Borg),

ADAPT unconventional systems, like making PvP-enabled missions based on the APB: Reloaded mission system - groups are sent on missions which become PvP missions as soon as other players are available on the opposing team, with a mix of stages and varied objectives across larger maps (including sector maps) as a means of making not-quite-open-world PvP (rather than full on PvP)

RETURN competitive PvE missions like the abandoned mining mission we had in Beta, but functional and less confusing.

STEAL ideas, like taking the *** siege massive PvP events and using them to define factional hold over regions of deep space and/or resources, by making PvP-enabled fleet station locations similar to DS9, but taken by force not treaty from the other side.

I'm also disheartened by your insistence on PvP having no impact on the rest of the game - making PvP have some kind of meaning outside of the events, rewarding resources, different region access and visual appearances to show off are how I have always been drawn into and remained involved in PvP.

But hey, you cant actually "save" Factional PvP without first saving the faction balance. Not being able to roll KDF from the start, not having a real set of balanced and unique advantages and weaknesses on each side, not having balanced content, will always set up a feeling of greener grasses on the other side. KDF may be 20% or less of the player base, but making it so they are now completely unnecessary to the game by removing factional PvP (once the only real content for KDF) is simply not how to grow it (hint: if yo build it... ah who am I kidding, you wont build it) Oh, and FvF was one of the worst things that could have been done to the PvP arenas... bolstering K's side with Feds in Mirror skins might have helped, but instead, Feds stopped fighting Klingons because they didn't need to.

And of course there's the "Pay-to-win" impression the c-store-ship-only consoles bring... (protip: make those consoles available for separate purchase using raid and pvp reward tokens)

EDIT: An expansion of the problem with thinking "factionless PvP" will save us: FvF did not save us. In fact, I would argue that the lack of real impact, the lack of lore/story basis, and the lack of an easily demonized opposing faction merely accelerated the extinguishing of PvP's appeal.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 254
05-13-2012, 07:25 PM
i see we've got the yearly thread here for improving pvp.

pvp was said to be one of the things season six would focus on. D'Angelo said this. We've heard that PWE wants pvp in game etc...

we get a single developer wow...seriously if this game is so strapped for resources, its best to shut it down and kill it now then to let it languish on like this, this is star trek. it deserves better. it deserves to be epic.
not mediocre and being developed as though its a pure indie project, with a 3 man team.

even I believed finally that PVP would be fixed or at least begun to be fixed during season 6, I said to the others, this time its true, while they scoffed based on past experiences, but they were right.

You can't fix pvp by yourself not in any reasonable time, and not the kind of 'fixes' it needs.

pvp needs engaging dynamic content that matters in some way to the game world, whether only a small part of it that ony players who involve themselves in pvp see.

how can you expect to have large numbers of people pvping when theres only deathmatch type content in the game?

theres so many threads full of suggestions, you should go through those first.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 255
05-13-2012, 07:28 PM
A few suggestions for Gozer.

But first of all, let me say that I think that your internal analysis of economic impact of removing PvP from game is probably wrong.
You're probably looking at some "average time spent pvping\total time spent on other activities" statistic.
What you're not seeing there is a variable that is "total time and money spent on other activities by pvpers that need gear\equipment\\ships\sets to be effective in pvp".
An example of this is that almost all pvpers have the maco\omega mk xii set. You can imagine how many stf runs have been done to achieve this.

As for suggestions:

1) Ok for removing faction queues.
2) Make or plan to introduce some PVE content just *impossible* to do without the new bonuses that PvPing will give you. I will further explain this at the end.
3) Excel is your friend. Make an Excel file where you put all BO skills, but also mk xi\xii weapons, ships, Items in the first column rows. Then we'll have all hull, shield, power levels, disable timers on the other columns. Every single item should be represented with numbers. Last column is the total, for second, for the entire map. Example: i fire a quantum and i make xxx theoric hull damage, i spawn a carrer pet and i'm adding xxx hull to the map and yyy theoric damage per second to the map.
This activity will require some imagination with science abilities and other things but is not impossible.
Now, in a perfect world two items with the same rarity and level should have the same total for the MAP.
Map is important here.
Now those columns numbers should also be the new score at the end of the game, and should be shown to players to fine-tune their builds.
Now imagine to introduce a number that is the map limit for a team for each variable in a given second. You'll have limited total dps, total healing, total disabling, total <every other variable here> available on the map from a team in each second of the arena.
Also imagine that this number scales with number of opponents and that you could change that number to balance.
Ok what we shoud have now is a game that, with a perfect execution, should result in a tie.
Even a 5v3 or a 5v4 match could be a tie with those limits in action.
It's also important to favour mixed class\ship teams over extreme builds (it's a penalty for 5 guramba, 5 carriers, 5 <any other ship> teams and also for 5 sci, 5 eng and 5 tac teams)
4) Make a public PvP ladder that gives to the player a team bonus to one of the limits (example: +50 team dps cap, +100 team hull healing cap, +30 disable duration and so on).
5) Program a PvE enemy that is the perfect enemy. He fires the counter to each BO ability, he heals its hull to the healing cap, he damages the team to the dps cap. Only with bonuses he can be beaten. Bonuses can also be obtained throug lock box items and ships.
6) Make an STF that has the new PvE enemy inside, and you will have players pvping all the time, trust me.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 256
05-13-2012, 07:53 PM
Originally Posted by hulkhogan.ita View Post
But first of all, let me say that I think that your internal analysis of economic impact of removing PvP from game is probably wrong.
Y .
Removel of pvp will have a bigger impact then they are thinking, I agree.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 257
05-13-2012, 08:09 PM

Need more space and ground maps.. some of the Fe's maps would be nice for pvp..

* The mining outpost from the rommie series
* The prison from the dominion arc
* Drozana station for a bar fight pvp match (melee only)


Add Military CXP to the rewards and maybe something we can work up for...

like a new set of something for space and ground.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 258
05-13-2012, 09:33 PM
Originally Posted by Vecna702
Removel of pvp will have a bigger impact then they are thinking, I agree.
Now that I re-read things, I doubt they would remove it...rather they'd probably just decide to leave it as is and consciously decide to never update it. Take it off life support, rather than smother it with a pillow.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 259
05-13-2012, 09:35 PM
I barely play PvP at all. Mostly because I become a complete elitist **** when I get involved in PVP and it's usually not hard to 'crack' the 'cipher' to these sort of systems for achieving a build that works well in the majority of situations (and definitely when facing the pugs).

But from that declaration, PvP might as well be over with. Sounds as though either it'll be gone for good or, well, not really be PvP least not in its consensus form.

I guess I better get some hours of PvP (never tired ground, either...better get on that) while I still can.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 260
05-13-2012, 09:37 PM
Originally Posted by BuccaneerDTB
I thought Perfect World was really big on PvP and wanted it to be a major part of STO.
Yes but they just sign the paychecks... anything Cryptic says has a shelf life of about 2 weeks. The next season update was supposed to have PvP editions that would wow everyone as well. The klink faction was going to get flushed out... romulans where on the books at one time... anyway not making another negative post really... lol
Honestly though if anything Cryptic says starts to hit the 2 week mark expect the Exact opposite to get dropped any day.
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