Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 291
05-14-2012, 04:24 PM
Seems to me what people are failing to realize is they have a choice.

They have a choice whether they want to pvp or not right now. And if the distraught Feddies think the big bad Klingons are OP they have a choice to pvp other fed players exclusively and avoid the Klingon faction altogether. If pvp is scrapped then NO ONE has a choice.

I pvp exclusively. Its the only thing I have left to do on my toon. I have made that choice. As I have made the choice to buy numerous C Store ships, uniform packs, emotes, and other assorted things. If pvp is taken away I will no longer be spending my money here because I'll be looking for another game. Seems that's the only CHOICE i'll be left with.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 292
05-14-2012, 04:30 PM
I second that, and no FvK means I'm probably heading for the door or not spending another dime.

Try the simple fix first before dropping the bomb. Since the first week of this game 1% of PVP players have been annihilating 99% and driving them away from the game for the absence of this.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoganWilliams
Before you actually consider removing PVP from the game. I'd like you to consider an open TeamSpeak forum with those of us who DO PVP and consider it as the ONLY reason worth playing the game. Many of us are lifetime subs and we've done our grind. Love/hate each other, I think you'll find that we WILL agree about our feelings of tanking pvp. LISTEN to us...... HEED what we have to say. This isn't the first or last game most of us have pvp'ed in. You treat the players like we don't matter.... like we can't be constructive. Until this changes, you won't "save" PVP.
I agree and would offer one solution,
Make a Kerrat like zone in Siruis like the one in klingon space for the feds that dont want to fight kdf.

SAVE OUR PVP ZONES!!!!!!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 294
05-14-2012, 05:12 PM
Quote:
Space/Ground PVP in one

You start on a space map and have to fight your way forward through secure points which have turrets and are a take overable objective on the map, similar to the capture point pvp map. Before moving onto the next capture point, after about five of these points, you come to a base which you have to beam down to and fight your way through corridor battles to the core and take it over while other players defend it.

Here you could have an interesting mechanic, when the opposing faction reaches the starbase and begins the assault they have to shoot down the heavy shields first. Then they have to beam down where they have a limited time to take over the first objective, a shield console, which keeps the shields down. If the defending players manage to hold off the attackers for the time period, the shield goes back up and the attacking players are beamed away back outside, and they have to knock down the shields again which are back to 50%.

Here the defending team can beam back to their ships and harass the attacking players again as they shoot down the base shield, push them back past the capture points and even give themselves some breathing room and turn the tide in the space side. Bit like space tug of war. But more like Push war.

So beam in, set up those cover shields, turrets etc, healers be ready and take down those defenders quick and keep your team alive! Suggested player cap 15vs15 or 20vs20. Based on what is fun during testing.

This scenario involves many elements, ground combat, space combat, beaming in and out depending on the situation, not linear...Could also make it so that there is nothing saying the team which has been pushed back has to beam down. They could choose to beam down some defenders, while some stay in space and go towards the capture points to capture them back, the attackers would have either to pull back some forces to keep you at bay, or try to overwhelm you with superior forces on the ground and reach your core quicker, to win the base fight.

Adds an interesting strategy element, is how much to keep on ground/space, to keep pressure off your ground by making the enemy pull off ground etc. If you have a good ground team they can keep the enemy at bay even you've got inferior numbers on the base ground map, you can then decide to send some people into space to capture the points and move towards the enemy base, and then the team attacking your base on the ground will finally have to decide to pull some back to deal with you approaching their base. Even if they ignored your initial capturing of the first few points, while they attempted to finish off your forces on the ground.

Winning team gets a double reward, the losing team gets half reward for participating
originally posted by me,

while your at removing things people seldom use.. remove all the other junk from the game too.

ive never seen a developer remove a fundamental area of a game because they couldnt get it right, this has to be a first.

can start here for the latest thread we had on PVP wants.

besides i thought territory control + doff + starbases + soff were supposed to be linked in the future like 2 years? mean eve progresses leaps and bounds in its 9th year.

http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=247614

also here is my post from that thread
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 295
05-14-2012, 05:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruis.In View Post
while your at removing things people seldom use.. remove all the other junk from the game too.

ive never seen a developer remove a fundamental area of a game because they couldnt get it right, this has to be a first.
Its a second ...
Klingon levels 1-20 were removed because there was not enough content. Rather than fix the issue they just removed the problem.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 296
05-14-2012, 05:56 PM
I'm exiting lurker mode because I think this may be the kind of feedback you are looking for.

I started playing STO when it went F2P. The first few times I logged into PvP queues it was awesome, great fun. It was enough fun that I rolled 2 new characters, both KDF, with the assumption that I'd be doing a lot of PvP.

Unfortunately .... PvP got boring very very fast. Now I log into a PvP queue approximately once a month when there is nothing else interesting going on. I don't think the reason for this has anything to do with the minor imbalances in gear or tactics that have everyone QQing in the forums. It wasn't even about the long queue times (although that is a minor annoyance and I look forward to seeing if a single queue will fix that).

Nope, the problem was that all the PvP matches are pretty much the same after a while. It's all 5 on 5, on the same 4 maps ... again .... and again .... and again. Not only that, but even in Assault and Capture-and-Hold it really all comes down to the same furball that you get in the Arena maps. There isn't any real strategy, everyone runs to one point on the map where the fighting is, and tries their best to get more kills than deaths.

The first thing that PvP needs are some new maps -- anything other than the same 4 that I had memorized in less than a week.

The second thing it needs are interesting new modes or scenearios.

If the PvP involved the sort of interesting scenarios that we get in the StFs or in Defera or in the missions, I'd definitely play it a lot more.

Earlier in the thread someone suggested porting the zombie mode from Champions Online only with Borg -- that would indeed be incredibly awesome. I'd definitely play that.

As another idea, how about expanding beyond 5v5? I doubt there is enough player interest at the moment to support regular 15v15 fleet engagements, but what it if was a calendar event like the Mirror or Vault fleet actions? If I saw something on the calendar advertising a major Fed v. KDF fleet action that would only last for 1 hour, I'd definitely sign up, just for the change of pace, and I think you could draw in a good number of us that mainly PvE.

For yet another idea, consider adding more NPCs to some of the maps. Capture and Hold maps that require you to attack a starbase or kill some npcs each time you capture a location would make for something more interesting than just the choice to either capture locations unopposed or join that big furball in the middle. Tweak it a little and you might find a way to (shocking idea here) get players fighting in more than one place at the same time. Assault maps might mean something other than Arena-on-the-desert-map if we had to fight our way through npc redshirts and turrets to get at the other players and capture objectives.

Heck, one fun idea might be a PvP map that lets me take some of my bridge officers along. It wouldn't take many players actually queuing to get a real set-piece battle feel if each player had a couple boffs with them, and it might encourage me to spend more time gearing up my boffs instead of spending every EDC on my ship.

Just a few ideas, and not terribly creative but I hope it helps. Give us some more creative scenarios, whether new maps and modes or just some regular PvP events along the lines of the Vault and Defera Invasion. Events in particular, while they might not make the hardcore PvP-only players as happy, would definitely get around the problem of not enough people joining the queues. How many people are playing the Vault right now as compared to how dead it would be if it were a regularly available STF? Just asking.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 297
05-14-2012, 07:04 PM
In continuing.....

You merge the spawns in an open pvp zone, throwing us together.
You make it so a premade team can queue together and totally stomp pugs, like they actually have skills.
You make ground pvp all but voodoo magic.
you eliminate meaningful rewards from open zones when I know, for a fact, that no less than three people posted 'bounty' ideas.


and ya wonder why pvp = fail

How about a leaderboard sortable by damage, kills, and healing and maybe pugs and premade amounts?
How about different maps, or even scenarios?
How about integrating pvp into starbases when they come out. No wait, the amount of people who don't give a rat's rearend about starbases outnumber those that do, sorry starbase folks, you're not profitable.

You have a platform here that's yours. You can make shooter style pvp like BF or COD. You can make MMO style worth something pvp like EvE or WoW..... Don't cry to us that pvp isn't profitable. Listen and bounce ideas
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 298
05-14-2012, 07:12 PM
Well, I recognize that the general opinion of PVP is pretty low, but I think there's also the seed of a really excellent experience there. I recognize that I'm in the minority, but the starship combat is literally the only reason that I still play Star Trek Online. As of right now, I think the most interesting thing PVP can do outside of territory control is to have fleet actions in the vein of Starbase 24, but with players representing both sides. Set up as a timed event ala the Mirror Universe event and offer solid rewards for participating. As of right now, there aren't a lot of material rewards in-game for participating in PVP.

In any case, I'm keeping a close eye on the progress of PVP. It really is the one and only reason I play this game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 299
05-14-2012, 09:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipG
I second that, and no FvK means I'm probably heading for the door or not spending another dime.

Try the simple fix first before dropping the bomb. Since the first week of this game 1% of PVP players have been annihilating 99% and driving them away from the game for the absence of this.
How does dropping the Factions from The Ques make any difference to you ?

You seem concerned about premades... and unless they are letting us Cross Faction team before we go in... mixed up teams on the other side simply means they where not teamed before they qued... isn't that what you want to see more ?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 300
05-14-2012, 11:54 PM
The reason why STO PvP sucks is simply that ship combat in STO sucks. This is stuff that I criticized a thousand times over when I still payed to play this game and that has fallen on deaf ears.

If you really want to save PvP in this game you have to start with ship combat. Normalize the ships so that their damage potential isn't orders of magnitude apart. Get rid of the whole way that maxing your phaser power is damn near mandatory to actually do enough damage to destroy someone, and change the system so that you need to make repairs between fights, rather than ships constantly magically regenerating.

Bridge Officer abilities shouldn't overrule positioning and maneuvering as your primary means to do well in a fight either.


This stuff has been brought up over a year ago, and Cryptic ignored it. People left.

http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=181470

http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...=199502&page=2

http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=199912


I can easily point to threads from a year ago where people were talking about the exact problems that destroy PvP in this game, and a lot of the fun in space combat in general.
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