Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 311
05-15-2012, 05:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedicabo-ego-vos
As soon as you wrote that you are dumping faction vs faction based PvP, I stopped reading.

There is not a single successful MMO on the market that does not have it, period.
Aside from:
  • DDO
  • LOTRO (monster play is not faction v. faction and the game underwent huge success without monster play altogether)

In fact, many games lack faction v. faction and relegate PvP entirely into an opt-in system.

My list of ideas:
  • Make contribution toward captures count
    • Right now, in Capture & Hold, it will not display the amount "held" or contributed to a hold. It only displays kills/heals/damage/deaths--which have nothing to do with the stated mechanics. In fact, contesting captured flags is counterproductive to the only rewards offered.
  • Show match bests at end (perhaps with Captain Portrait, Captain name, Ship, and Fleet.
    • PvP players enjoy bragging rights and demonstrating skill. Show this and players will want to be that person mentioned at the end of a match.
  • Make rewards scale toward contributions (and heavily reward top slots)
    • Most heals, Most damage, etc.
  • Make winning far, far more profitable than losing
    • This encourages teamwork, SWTOR fixed this early on.
  • Item balance pass
    • Gear sets are all over the map, special consoles mostly break PvP balance. Adjusting non-Cstore ships toward end-game PvP competition will be necessary.
  • Spam balance pass
    • Disabling non-carrier pet fighters from PvP would go a long way (or make them more vulnerable). Mines, similarly, must be adjusted in a PvP context, especially drop rates and persistency.
  • Leaderboards:
    • Snix promised leaderboards almost two years ago. Here are some musts:
      • Global Leaderboards (perhaps top ten only)
      • Fleet lists (compare within fleet or fleet vs. fleet)
      • Ability to compare player versus player (see your record versus someone else).
  • In-Game PvP Events:
    • Either special rewards or ways of gravitating players toward specific game types.
  • Foundry Support
    • Free content, add it as a unique queue. No brainer.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 312
05-15-2012, 05:11 AM
[quote=TFR_MACO_Specialist
What would help though would be a change in attitude of some of the players in PvP, especially Kerrat. The same old rhetoric is heard again and again, unfortunately mostly from the same two or three Klinks - yes, you know who you are. These bully boy tactics are the exact opposite of the gentlemanly manner that STO fans usually should and do conduct themselves. Just because you play a violent war obsessed species doesn't mean you have to actually be that way as a person. What is honourable about slagging off a player that may be trying really hard, or continually abusing Feds because they are seen as crap players. Anyone entering Kerrat for the first time, especially youngsters, may find this quite demotivating and just choose not to go back in.
[/QUOTE]

there are plenty Feds with the same attitude, Feds that I enjoy hammering first, because usually those type of people compensate their lack of skills with the bad attitude. This will never go away in an open pvp zone. But what can be done by cryptic is a small walkthrough mission for pvp beginners where they learn the basics of using powers (shield ballance, key binds, what each power does when is used and why would you use it). Unfortunately with pve being so easy, pve-ers don't know how different pvp is, so either make pve much harder (on elite), either make one/few pvp intro missions, to learn few pvp basics.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 313
05-15-2012, 05:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by prom3theus View Post
there are plenty Feds with the same attitude, Feds that I enjoy hammering first, because usually those type of people compensate their lack of skills with the bad attitude. This will never go away in an open pvp zone. But what can be done by cryptic is a small walkthrough mission for pvp beginners where they learn the basics of using powers (shield ballance, key binds, what each power does when is used and why would you use it). Unfortunately with pve being so easy, pve-ers don't know how different pvp is, so either make pve much harder (on elite), either make one/few pvp intro missions, to learn few pvp basics.
Give us the ability in foundry and we might be able to get it officialised in game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 314
05-15-2012, 05:27 AM
The answer to all of this is in the link in my sig (first link)...

At the same time as fixing PvP, it also:
* Greatly improves PvE for both (and any new) factions, and makes adding new content simple.
* Adds a complete exploration system.
* Gives science captains a new niche.
* Gives fleets lots of new things to do together.
* Improves the foundry.
* Reduces development time of ALL NEW CONTENT.
* Gives PvP a REASON!
* Is mostly based on extending what is already in the game, reusing already created (as well as upcoming season 6) systems.



... and best of it, it only has to be implemented once, as it is a dynamic system capable of infinate possibility and replayability ...



The answer is right here. Implement it and never look back. If you are going to do it, then do it right.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 315
05-15-2012, 07:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
Currently I think that it's more important for Cryptic to add good incentives for PvP. Only then does it even make sense bothering with the mechanics, and I don't see the game to be fundamentally changed to a less "flashy" game. Balancing stuff better, and maybe even reducing the power of buffs and debuffs... But all that is pointless if there is no reason to PvP for most players.
Sorry, but you could not possibly be more wrong.

This is exactly the kind of thinking that causes MMO after MMO to fail. Developers thinking that waving rewards in peoples face is a better incentive to play than focussing on making the game FUN.

The pidgeon isn't going to keep pecking your stupid boring button if it can go to the lab next door and get fed for playing XBox.

The only reason to play any game is because you are having fun doing so. STO fundamentally fails at delivering that because Cryptic has never figured out that good combat mechanics trump everything else when it comes to making people play your game.

How come Team Fortress 2 has more players than STO after ten years running with nothing to motivate people besides an assortment of bloody hats? Is it maybe because its actually a well crafted, fun experience for people?

If you need to reward the player for doing something that should stand entirely on its own because otherwise they won't do it then it's not the reward you should be concerned about, it's the fact that your gameplay obviously doesn't stand by its own merits.

When you have battles that are so much fun that people will engage in them without a reward, and then you add a reward on top of that you can really hit it out of the park, but simply assuming that the actual gameplay is secondary is just plain stupid.

Players have a choice, as long as you do nothing but try to skinnerbox them , don't be surprised if they are going to look for a nicer box.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 316
05-15-2012, 07:51 AM
Idea: Keep track of the # of wins. When setting up matches, try to keep win counts even (+/- a certain percentage) on both sides.


Not an exact thing, but should at least help good people fight other good people over the long haul and leaving everyone else with people closer to their capability.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 317
05-15-2012, 08:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rothnang
Sorry, but you could not possibly be more wrong.

This is exactly the kind of thinking that causes MMO after MMO to fail. Developers thinking that waving rewards in peoples face is a better incentive to play than focussing on making the game FUN.

The pidgeon isn't going to keep pecking your stupid boring button if it can go to the lab next door and get fed for playing XBox.

The only reason to play any game is because you are having fun doing so.
/snip
I agree, also lets not forget the type of rewards Gozer has created in the STFs to motivate players. These might work well or not for STfs. But take the current QQ and hostility of the forums, and now imagine 100% of STOs population needing to run over 1200 pvP dailies to have a random chance at getting a cosmetic helmet for their toon. Its one thing to queue up with little hope of winning, feeling forced to do so 1200x against TSI/SP/LORE/DOB or who ever will not save pvp, imv.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 318
05-15-2012, 08:47 AM
If I understand cross faction queues right, I agree with the changes. PvP needs to be simpler before it gets more complicated.

Replace all the queues with 2 queues, arena and C&H. Remove all the PvP quests. Make the reward system the same as in STFs. If you win, you get optional + completion rewards, if you lose you only get completion rewards.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 319
05-15-2012, 09:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmaavvaahh
I agree, also lets not forget the type of rewards Gozer has created in the STFs to motivate players. These might work well or not for STfs. But take the current QQ and hostility of the forums, and now imagine 100% of STOs population needing to run over 1200 pvP dailies to have a random chance at getting a cosmetic helmet for their toon. Its one thing to queue up with little hope of winning, feeling forced to do so 1200x against TSI/SP/LORE/DOB or who ever will not save pvp, imv.
Whining and complaining is certainly not great - but people play the STFs in droves. They hate the grind, they say, but whatever, if it's the only way to get those cool sets, it's what they have to do.

PvP in STO never provided any incentives beyond maybe the Mark X Covariant CAP x 3 Shield before the Vice Admiral and Mark XI and Mark XII gear was introduced. So it was always a minority of players that bothered with. Fixing balance and bugs will certanly help somewhat, but not fundamentally.

I am not saying the systems state of PvP could stay like this. But without the incentive, it's a waste of time. Maybe instead of one drop in the bucket of players good systems could raise it to 5 drops in the bucket. Still not enough.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 320
05-15-2012, 09:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
Whining and complaining is certainly not great - but people play the STFs in droves. They hate the grind, they say, but whatever, if it's the only way to get those cool sets, it's what they have to do.

PvP in STO never provided any incentives beyond maybe the Mark X Covariant CAP x 3 Shield before the Vice Admiral and Mark XI and Mark XII gear was introduced. So it was always a minority of players that bothered with. Fixing balance and bugs will certanly help somewhat, but not fundamentally.

I am not saying the systems state of PvP could stay like this. But without the incentive, it's a waste of time. Maybe instead of one drop in the bucket of players good systems could raise it to 5 drops in the bucket. Still not enough.
I ll probably edit this post in a bit, but after reading yours, Gozer's update all of a sudden begins to scare me a lot. While there will always be people calling hax and cheats, taking defeat personal, or suffering from delusions of grandeur because of their pvp performance. These individuals, however, are far and few in among STOs pvp community. Overall, the spirit of friendly competition is great. However, loosing against an borg invisible torp is one thing, being blown up by another player is something else.

The sense of futility that prevents many of my fleetmates from beginning to pvp, hence never becoming good enough at it to enjoy it, combined with the collectors' desire for new shinnies sounds like a horrible match. Sure the latter fills the STF queues despite all the complaints over the droprates, but for the tone and atmosphere of pvp it makes for a very bleak outlook.

No random drop prototype tech for pvp. We have enough farmers, afkers, and quiters as is. You just shouldn't force pvp onto people. Make something they want to have (MK XII purple console) and give them a reliable way to achieve it. Otherwise the frustration over STO will reach new hights, resulting in less players.
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