Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 341
05-16-2012, 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
oh yes, its those who actually know how to play that are the problem, not the incompetent that did only pve till level cap then tried out pvp, once.

it just goes to show that a system that is very personal skill based AND mechanically complex is simply to complicated for the majority to TRY to learn, regardless of how many helpful threads there are
QFT

PvP is time oriented part of the game. You have to PvP for weeks and/or months to get the PvE stench off your ship and then you really can learn. It took me months to be decent at PvP, I am still trying to be great at PvP it takes time, practice, and a lot of respawn clicks.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 342
05-16-2012, 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Data
QFT

PvP is time oriented part of the game. You have to PvP for weeks and/or months to get the PvE stench off your ship and then you really can learn. It took me months to be decent at PvP, I am still trying to be great at PvP it takes time, practice, and a lot of respawn clicks.
I must admit back in 2010 all did was pve to Rear Admiral (b4 Vice Admiral came out) without even touching pvp, their was nothing for me to pvp for all the rewards were with pve. It was only till I hit RA that I started to pvp only because I wanted end game content and was curious.

The first few months was all about clicking the respawn button and thinking wtf !!!!, I started to pvp in my beloved Assault cruiser and was squshy as hell, I was usuing all the good stuff like boarding party jam sensors etc etc, but now its my beloved ody or escort. It took at least 2 months of pure pvp to start to understand the game mechanics and what each bridge officer skill actually did. The point is it does take a lot of time to get into the groove of pvp and pvp offers nothing really as a reward to entice players to do it. Even now 800 days later im still learning new things about each skill and flying techniques. Wish their was something that enticed players to pvp early on so they get hooked just like me.

(mmm sry for the ramble but had a few whiskys, may have even gone off topic, but hey )
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 343
05-16-2012, 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoganWilliams
Before you actually consider removing PVP from the game. I'd like you to consider an open TeamSpeak forum with those of us who DO PVP and consider it as the ONLY reason worth playing the game. Many of us are lifetime subs and we've done our grind. Love/hate each other, I think you'll find that we WILL agree about our feelings of tanking pvp. LISTEN to us...... HEED what we have to say. This isn't the first or last game most of us have pvp'ed in. You treat the players like we don't matter.... like we can't be constructive. Until this changes, you won't "save" PVP.
I agree. The problem is that for those of us that have been lifetime sub's for a long time find PvP the real challenge. PvE is alot of fun but only goes so far as atm it is possible to out build even the Elite npc's and take out entire mobs, even the heaviers units solo.

PvP as in every MMO is where the challenge is. Now obviously you guys have no idea how to fix this properly. I suggest you talk to us, that spend most of our time in Ker'rat and the PvP ques what needs to be done to fix it. As seeing as what you are intending to do to PvP in season 6, you clearly have little or no idea of what we want.

You talk about it being a business. The key in business is to know your clients. PvP has huge potential but you need to actually listen to those of us that actually PvP. Thats smart business.

What you're talking about doing is like Optus cutting its 1TB download limit because only 3% of its customers use it. Instead they think about ways of making it more appealing, by "adding things".

The reason PvP is where it is, is to because no one uses it. We clearly do. But because you lot have shown no love for it at all since launch.


Perosonally, you want to make PvP worth it? Make it rewarding, not just dilithium, give us rare and unique drops for PvP only. Give us a reason to do it and people will flock to it. Thats smart business thinking.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 344
05-16-2012, 05:18 PM
Well I hear rumors of PvP getting decimated, so I feel that I should voice my opinion. Or it doesn't really matter. First PvP is a nightmare as it stands currently, but the people I go against in Kerrat are by far a lot better then any AI I will encounter in game. To the scale that most players that activly PvP can easily destroy the more powerful ship of the game solo.

But I feel as if PvP was neglected due to a lack of direction, so allow me to help. This following idea is from what I understand, easy, simple to impliment, and more importantly profitable on all sides.

My idea, is for controllable zones. Yes im digging up this long dead horse to beat it one last time. But the idea would provide benefits to players who wish to PvP for a sepcific purpose and more importantly would allow cryptic to make money on the side. The controled zones would be perhaps both Space and Ground, where as the Space ships would secure the system, while the ground team would harvest the resources that would later be shared among the entire team. So not every person in a zone has to be an elite PvP player to enjoy the rewards. More importantly it could be level or even skill controlled, by replacing the current Que system with the ability to choose what skill level you are willing to fight in. Example, Easy, Medium, Hard, where as hard would be the zone with the highest rewards, and therefore attract the best players. The zones could run 24/7 with the ability to cap the population evenly between factions. Thus eliminating the outnumber the enemy and lock down the zone effect. Now about this point its somewhat strange to understand what would be in this for Cryptic... Easy to explain, you can make special equipment and double reward perks, new weapons for both ground and space, new harvesting systems. It's really a limitless well of possibilities for PvP to make cryptic a lot of money. But some people who do not wish to PvP will probly complain if they are forced to PvP for some resource. For that I have a solution too, make a PvE version with substantially lighter rewards. This solves the problem of PvE players not having access to the resource, and also keeps PvP a valuable asset for both the players and cryptic.

Surely it would not be difficult to add a system in a Que, and also couldn't be difficult to make a "Special Resource" that would allow players access to new and exciting equipment. And when you CREATE a supply, I can promise you, there will be a Demand for that resource.

Please consider what you can do with PvP, befor you remove it and a valuable asset of the game. As I myself have purchased ships and equipment to fight other players, not a perticular AI.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 345
05-16-2012, 06:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshot_9 View Post
You talk about it being a business. The key in business is to know your clients. PvP has huge potential but you need to actually listen to those of us that actually PvP. Thats smart business.
Bravo! This should be step 1 in pvp revamp! Then other things.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 346
05-16-2012, 07:35 PM
I'm telling ya every one that plays this game needs to sub up a couple months to eve online. It will let you see what 9 years of development work has done to a lot of the problems we are having in STO. EVE is missing a lot of stuff that this game has done well at like a cool story, cool avatars, walking in space stations, and ground combat. But when it comes to in game mechanics for space PVE/PVP, fleet systems, in game economy and currency systems (see my post about currency's http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...ighlight=zechx) it takes the cake. Star trek needs to learn from EVE successes to make STO be all it can be.

Here are a couple things STO needs fix and add, some come from eve.
1. Fix the mouse tracking bug where your mouse pointer starts ghosting.
2. Make a right click menu for categorizing inventory and a auto stack all option for same items.
3. ALL UI menu's should be windowed so they can all be drag/droped and sized including the corner map, totally customizable UI.
4. Full galaxy auto pilot, not just sector to sector.
5. Fix carrier commands for fighters, laggy and unresponsive a lot of the time.
6. Make all items real inventory, carrier fighters should be individual items loaded into your ship. You should be able to control them individually and see there attack status and hull/shields in a windowed menu.
7. Extend weapons range, canons and high dps should start at 10km with beams going out to 100s of km like it would be in real space. This makes for much more classes of ships including snipers.
8. More camera zoom out so you can see more around your ships even when you have huge ones like carriers, you should be able to have as much zoom out from your carrier as you do for you shuttle craft.
9. An option to turn on a tactical overview over your ship showing scan range, weapon range maximum and optimum and other systems much like EVE's
10. Allow full impulse in combat no stupid restrictions, you should be able to warp in and out and impulse when ever you want. Interlock systems are old and restricting.
11. Full player driven economy, allow more to be made by players through the replicator systems.
12. Base the whole economy off of dilithium powering ships antimatter reactors and there for there replicators which let players make things using reactors energy credits, much like the model now just more complete and with the dilithium used as a fuel it makes a working currency sink. See my link above about currency for info on how the system would work.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 347 Pvper thoughts
05-16-2012, 08:28 PM
Sorry I cannot bring myself to read all these walls of text to see if this has been said before but figured I'd lend a few suggestions to the PVP remake discussion.

1: Give it purpose... sector control (with a bonus), planet control (with a bonus) etc... leaving it to just give some crap item to sell for more creds a lvl 50 doesn't need because they have full gear is pointless. Maybe just MAYBE even like 1 cryptic point per win. Now THAT would make it competitive.

2: Balance - Tactical built right dominates. Engy blows and science is easy to counter.

3: PVE Reward balance (The reason lots of people non tactical are suckin so hard IMO is the roles aren't defined well in PVE meaning Engy tank, Sci support/healer. Why are these crap? Because everyone goes for dmg due to the rewards on SB24 for example being CRAP for anyone not dmg oriented)

4: Pay attention to the PVPers not the PVEers. PVPers know the game a lot better than PVEers. Why? Because they have to develop skills and knowledge of everything in the game in order to defeat the unknown plethora of combos delivered by fellow pvpers instead of a premade easy mode group of bots.

Just a few thoughts from a seasoned PVPer hope it helps! (probably just get buried though from the sounds of things haha)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 348
05-17-2012, 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drakrtar View Post
Sorry I cannot bring myself to read all these walls of text to see if this has been said before but figured I'd lend a few suggestions to the PVP remake discussion.

1: Give it purpose... sector control (with a bonus), planet control (with a bonus) etc... leaving it to just give some crap item to sell for more creds a lvl 50 doesn't need because they have full gear is pointless. Maybe just MAYBE even like 1 cryptic point per win. Now THAT would make it competitive.

2: Balance - Tactical built right dominates. Engy blows and science is easy to counter.

3: PVE Reward balance (The reason lots of people non tactical are suckin so hard IMO is the roles aren't defined well in PVE meaning Engy tank, Sci support/healer. Why are these crap? Because everyone goes for dmg due to the rewards on SB24 for example being CRAP for anyone not dmg oriented)

4: Pay attention to the PVPers not the PVEers. PVPers know the game a lot better than PVEers. Why? Because they have to develop skills and knowledge of everything in the game in order to defeat the unknown plethora of combos delivered by fellow pvpers instead of a premade easy mode group of bots.

Just a few thoughts from a seasoned PVPer hope it helps! (probably just get buried though from the sounds of things haha)
Read 4 now read two. I have my misgivings.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 349
05-17-2012, 10:18 AM
Make it fun?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 350
05-17-2012, 10:25 AM
I think the main thing that can be easily done to fix PVP is add an additional PUG only PVP que that would group everyone up randomly regardless if they enter the que grouped or not. Let people that like queing up in premades still que up in the regular ques, but let people like me that enjoy disorganized chaotic PVP more que up and fight like minded people. Depending on the time of day I can't always be on TS and won't bother fighting premades who are, but am still willing to PVP other PUGS, and like I said sometimes it is more fun where everyone is disorganized and fighting individually how they think best.
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