Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
05-11-2012, 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
I could be wrong and I know he said don't read in... but what I just got was this.

1) STOs business model does not include PvP... cause it is 100% non factor in terms of revenue income as it is seen by the Cryptic folk.
2) Any changes the new PvP Czar makes MUST not interfere in ANY way with the real business model... which once again does not include PvP. (It revolves around paid super ships for STF runners... and really cool skins and outfits for the RP folk that pay the bills)
3) Once again we are being promised long term plans that range as far as a year out... haha heard this before.
4) The Goofy Toys that have been introed into sets and onto the store... are an issue as seen by players... SO just make some changes that mean those items are available to everyone and all will be well....

I won't sugar coat it... I had very little hope for the whole Hey we have a PvP Czar stuff before... and I know have 0 hope.

This games pvp WAS good... and Cryptic has continually dumped on it by focusing on what pays their bills... (I honestly can't fault them for wanting to make money I guess). Now they are looking at the mess and have tasked someone to try to clean it up... but then instructed him that any fixes must NOT turn of the Crap tap.................

Gozer a word of advice... run from this job. Your employer has set you up for a MAJOR fail on your resume in my personal opinion. ( honestly did you eat the bosses lunch out of the fridge or something ? )
I think you've got it a bit wrong and a bit right:

1. Right now the PvP population is so small it isn't impacting Cryptic much one way or another, except as a giant headache for the devs.

2. But, Gozer's job isn't to write it off, Gozer's job is to try and find a way to re-invent it so it's popular enough #1 will no longer be the case.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
05-11-2012, 07:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mellestad View Post
Many PvP folks didn't like carrier spam. Carrier spam is obviously enormously popular across the general server. That's exactly what I mean...right now, STO isn't going to be able to sacrifice PvE concepts for the sake of PvP. It just isn't going to happen, Cryptic has zero incentive to do that.

Unless someone can come up with another way of doing things, like PvP matches only using premade ships/builds, like a "stock" ladder where the whole thing is like monster play, you just aren't going to jive PvE and PvP perfectly, and because of the current state of the game PvE fun is going to beat PvP fun every day.

Maybe if PvP had been handled differently from the beginning that wouldn't be the situation, but it is what it is now, nothing we can do about it.
Or, like in many other games, have different effects for abilities in PvE and PvP.

For example, in PvE, you can launch Danubes away to your heart's content, maybe having waves of 8 total out there. In PvP, that could be limited to 2 or 4. In PvE, CPB could drain up to 10,000, to account for inflated NPC shield HP. In PvP, that number could be 5,000.

Obviously it would require testing, but not that much. A few days would be more than enough to give both communities enough time to evaluate any changes (assuming they were brought about in stages and not just all at once) and give appropriate feedback for further tweaks.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
05-11-2012, 07:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvs5191 View Post
I think it'd be interesting to compare just how much PvPers spend in the C-Store compared to PvEers.

I know multiple people that are respec'ing once, twice, even up to 3+ times a week. Then we've all got have to one of the new ships or P2W consoles. And then we've got to respec again to work our builds into these ships or to counter them.

We may not be a significant part of the population numbers wise - but we sure as hell spend a lot.
- I bought at least 8 respec tokens this month.
- Bought 2 oddessys this month.
- Bought the gurumba this month

At LEAST 8000 cpoints spent in a month, and that while im a PVP'er only. Go figure. If pvp goes, I go.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
05-11-2012, 07:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mellestad View Post
Unless someone can come up with another way of doing things, like PvP matches only using premade ships/builds, like a "stock" ladder where the whole thing is like monster play
This doesn't seem practical or likely. It would be counter to their potential c-store profits for the purpose of PvP. I suspect they want to create more incentive for people to spend, not less.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
05-11-2012, 07:32 PM
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies. ~Alecto
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 46
05-11-2012, 07:33 PM
At the end of the day "we" are disposable. Absolutely Disposable. but we knew that already didnt "we"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsx2vdn7gpY

Oh wait thank god for gw2, d3, arma3.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 47
05-11-2012, 07:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvs5191 View Post
Or, like in many other games, have different effects for abilities in PvE and PvP.

For example, in PvE, you can launch Danubes away to your heart's content, maybe having waves of 8 total out there. In PvP, that could be limited to 2 or 4. In PvE, CPB could drain up to 10,000, to account for inflated NPC shield HP. In PvP, that number could be 5,000.

Obviously it would require testing, but not that much. A few days would be more than enough to give both communities enough time to evaluate any changes (assuming they were brought about in stages and not just all at once) and give appropriate feedback for further tweaks.
If they could do that that would be great. But I can't see them assigning enough resources to maintain a dedicated PvP environment, can you?

Look at it this way...the hail mary pass for PvP is...one dev, who, as far as I know, is still doing other things at Cryptic. I'm just trying to be realistic.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 48
05-11-2012, 07:36 PM
As dribyelruh said earlier, without balance and quality control, what ever "new changes you are going to introduce will pretty much go to waste. Instead of building a foundation for long term pvp enjoyment, it might be a short term gimmick leading to your goals not being acheived.

Now, based on what you admitted about the state of PVP, i couldn't agree with you more and respect you for your brutal honesty.

Anger isn't what i feel at this point. Frustration would best describe the mood of the PVP community. But thats not the point of this thread.

Just some advice from a project manager:
Not consulting the existing loyal ( i really do stress the word "loyal") pvpers and not making a long term plan visible to all concerned can spell disaster from the start. It could possibly start alienating people without intention of doing so. Good stakeholder management can make you great friends for the changes even though the changes might be rutheless. Making drastic changes without any stakeholder management can stop your project dead in its tracks or not achieving your future state.

At least give us the scope or headlines of the changes you are undetaking. See what the general opinion is from your intended customers at least.

Only saying this to try and help you achieve what the PVP community wants. Years of PVP enjoyment from potentially the best space MMO to date.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 49
05-11-2012, 07:37 PM
I cannot honestly understand why they would do so much trouble on the game mechanics lets stay the skill tree.. why do all that trouble with revamping, balancing, breaking, fixing, tweaking, alot of it doesnt even matter in PVE because you are pretty much invincible anyway.

Why that failsauce finetuning? All for PVE? Kinda losing me there.
They can just as well stop touching that as well rofl.

When we haerd PWE took over I honestly thoght they cared more for PVP. But it seems that they took another direction and for the sake of it dumped 1 single person on the job, 6 months after the game went F2P. Dont look at Cryptic nor PWE to make pvp in this game worthwhile now.

I think I will hope for the best that at least the old current PVP system stays, and not completely thrown out of the airlock because that will cause me to stop playing this game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 50
05-11-2012, 07:45 PM
"Participation in PVP related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people that log in to the game and play in any significant way."

Gave me more of a laugh than anger.
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