Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
05-16-2012, 08:27 AM
As far as science vessels go...Each have a basic setup with a small variation to add a supporting role.

RSSV -- Extra Tactical Officer
DSSV -- Extra Enginneering Officer
Intrepid -- Extra Science Officer
T'Kyr/Nebula -- both substitute a LT Com Engineer and only have a LT Science/Commander Science

All are great ships and can be used effectively.

Personally I use the intrepid, but use whichever you like...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
05-16-2012, 08:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAlaska
As far as science vessels go...Each have a basic setup with a small variation to add a supporting role.

RSSV -- Extra Tactical Officer
DSSV -- Extra Enginneering Officer
Intrepid -- Extra Science Officer
T'Kyr/Nebula -- both substitute a LT Com Engineer and only have a LT Science/Commander Science

All are great ships and can be used effectively.

Personally I use the intrepid, but use whichever you like...
My Science toon uses the Intrepid Retro when I decide to use a science ship. But I generally stay in the MVAM Advanced Escort (Prometheus class) - quite an effective escort for a science toon.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
05-16-2012, 11:48 AM
Thank you for so many replies, I appreciate the help

For the time being I chose the deep space vessel. I did pick up an additional costume for the ship so the secondary array looks more like a deflector than a ski. Flying the USS Agnodice around I think the shape is growing on me. The curved hull on one of the variants remind me of the Horizon so I'm liking that.

The decision really came down to how I had specced my captain. I play a little PvE but for the most part I putter around and solo story missions. Science was a bit of an odd duck to me. As a Tactical offiecer or an Engineer It was the Science I underemphaisized so figuring out where all those points mattered to me was a hard call. Because I'm usually solo my build is somewhat generalist with the only empty boxes usually being threat control and stealth.

I built my first beam boat. My captain blanked projectiles. My science is rounded with emphaisis placed on agressive interupt/debuff powers. Maneuverability was always important to me but with my specs on the DSV chassis and a console buff I'm turning at full impulse at around 20.5 degrees.(with a 90 degree arc on science powers this seemed critical).

My "punch" is consistent if not earth-shattering and the science abilities are really game changers. Holding onto the eng department was a real life saver and I think I would really miss their presence more than another tac officer who would be relegated to being a tac team rinse repeat button.

For now I'll try this on but I am looking at the pay boats and wouldn't mind hearing about their virtues and vices. I'm not knowledgeable enough with the class that I wanted to drop c-points on something that wasn't any fun to play with. Thanks again.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
05-16-2012, 08:08 PM
For payware science boats you're going to have to make some choices if you'd like a canon ship (Nebula), roleplay post ENT era Vulcan Science Academy (D'Kyr) or go for a battlestar approach with the Caitian Carrier or Odyssey Scientific variant.

Because they are all priced $20-25 it's paramount you like your first purchase and are willing to spend lots of time developing your own build for it not just for PvE as you're doing now, but for advanced task force duties as well (in STFs, Elite STFs or even some light PvP).

Because you're going to be concerned about value for money, getting something oversized, overengineered and overgunned is going to make a lot of sense so in this respect you'll have to think big.

Which means Atrox Carrier. In endgame play it can be easily made into a successful space dominance ship. Not very big on agility but with fighter wings and most/full science ship capabilities it can just sit off the coast of your favourite enemy nation and bomb them to submission.

Compared to the Atrox, the older science vessels like D'Kyr and Nebula aren't going to have a lot of selling points and definitely can't compete in the size or number of toys department. The Odyssey Scientific is pretty good but is not a 'proper' science vessel. It behaves more like a cruiser with an advanced sensor package and is IMO, way too common and most Odyssey builds I've seen flown by non-Fleet personnel are a bit weak, to tell the truth. You got to make sense of how to use the universal LTC bridge officer slot to spec the ship right.

The Atrox has none of these teething problems because it was designed to be powerful right from the get go. So for $25, that's where the fun is.

I do have an alternative out of the box suggestion - STO's endgame is very DPS (damage per second) oriented. There is currently a Federation 'warship' you can buy that is configured like a multi role vessel with both heavy tactical and above average scientific ability (it has a LTC sci boff).

It's the Multi-vector assault ship that has the capability to out-gun and out maneuver almost everything except a Klingon BoP, can gravwell or repulse for riot control, and can mount dual heavy cannons
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
05-17-2012, 02:10 AM
Nebula and MVAE are your best bets for a science vessel, and a sciency ship. Check out Cygone's builds; they are a great place to start.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
05-18-2012, 12:14 PM
Hurray another vice admiral to add to the collection. I guess this is the last big step for the character as far as full on tweaking and skill buying goes so now I'm looking at the most enjoyable ride to finish the package.

I really did come to like the deep science vessel. The combination of good engineering and strong science along with good maneuverability made for for some engaging tactical possibilities. The luxury of autofiring multi-beam arrays lead to a fire and forget situation where I was able to focus on the real game changing capabilities of the vessel (being control of position and the combo of science and engineering powers).

I fretted and worried about the loss of maneuverability I might suffer with the DSV but after a testdrive those concerns were quite happily put to rest. At this point in the character's career however things aren't so simple.

Anything I chose to add in the ship department will cost c-points. I have examined some of the vessels mentioned by helpful posters on the thread and don't see any 100% satifaction selection.

Voyager style retrofit: It would certainly move like the DSV and the previous refit I enjoyed so much but the losses in engineering seem like an equal trade off at best. Paying for a mild variation seems kind of silly.

Magellan retrofit: The 9 base turn is a full quarter down and again it seems to suffer from specialization that would pay a diminishing return.

MVAE: My first character and my klingon character are both tactical officers while the next to most recent was an engineer. In the last two careers (eng and sci) I got used to to the tac deficiency and with the trades don't really miss it. I do remain terribly jealous of how beautifully the San Paolo and B'rel take a corner though. Moving to a more agressive boat while opening the exploit frequencies(90 degree fwd arc) really limits the powers that you bring to bear when you are there. I do have an escort to claim for this character if I wanted to test in this type of build though.

Atrox: 5 turn no. I can call in a fleet of real ships and a photonic fleet as well if I'm that hard up for reinforcements. Unless somebody is really careless or is feeling very charitable can't see me dictating facings in too many engagements unless I squander most if not all of my eng consoles on RCS boosts.

Odyssey: This is where I'm leaning. The turn rate is similarly awful but there seem to be some advantages to this platform. Being spoiled for console space and device slots is a real treat. A bump on sheild power in addition to a aux hike is welcome.. A free travel perk sounds good. The work bee thing even sounds kind of nice though I don't know anything about it. The advantages to a ressignment could outweigh my reservations and the universal chairs on the bridge might allow me to do some experiments on the fly without having to reinvent the wheel. I just wish the frame looked like the big brother/sister of a DSV rather than a generic cruiser(see too many around and enjoy dressing my ships).

The other possibility would be to wait out and see what new ships might wait over the horizon. I'd really like to see a medical frigate fast support vessel rather than a roll on/ roll off beast or spy plane science ship

************************************************** **

Maybe that Nebula/Magellan is the way to go. The Odyssey is regardless of repurposing an engineering ship. That Commander Eng seat and a Lt. Commander Science config makes me sad (Last bit of research). I don't know the numbers but I could probably bring that turn to around 16 or so (wild guess) which is fairly respectable. The universal Lt. slot might allow for some odd combos. I haven't put any money down so maybe I'll deliberate a bit longer before I lose the will and make an impulse purchase. I know that I like the form of the Nebula better.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
05-19-2012, 01:28 AM
On the Klink side, I've come to enjoy a love for the BoP/ Sci Cappy combo that would be illegal in the south.
Lt. Commander
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Posts: 120
# 18
05-19-2012, 09:33 AM
On the klingon side I don't think you can go wrong with a BoP. To date I only have a tactical general but with such a versatile platform I know what I want any future science or engineer generals flying when they come to be. An awesome vessel.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
05-19-2012, 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by horridperson
Atrox: 5 turn no. I can call in a fleet of real ships and a photonic fleet as well if I'm that hard up for reinforcements. Unless somebody is really careless or is feeling very charitable can't see me dictating facings in too many engagements unless I squander most if not all of my eng consoles on RCS boosts.
As a long time carrier pilot with the KDF, and now the Feds, I have to disagree here. Carrier don't turn well...by themselves. That's where you come in. Deuterium Burn, Evasive Manuevers, Aux to Inertial Dampers, and using reverse when necessary...these are all things you can do to increase turn rate.

But carriers don't need to turn that well or that often. I've had one guy tell me he wants sci ships in his party to use SNB to remove buffs. That would be one of the few times a carrier actually needs to turn. Other than that, you have fighters and shuttles that turn on a dime. Your carrier is there to support those fighters and shuttles, and the other ships in your party. Neither of those roles require a high turn rate. Reverse Shield Polarity and Tactical Team are both ways to keep your shields up without needing to turn in order to protect a weak shield facing.

I've yet to try tanking in the Atrox, because my Fed sci officer isn't specced for it exactly, and my Fed eng is happy with his Oddy atm. But when Fed flight deck officers come out, I'll certainly try it. My KDF sci officer is set up to shield tank as well as support in the Vo'quv. MY KDF eng tanks very well in his Vo'quv. With the new flight deck officer powers coming out, I see no reason why Fed sci's couldn't shield tank as well as their KDF counterparts already can. And Fed eng's can probably tank in the Atrox already. I'm just reluctant to try it now without a flight deck officer. I don't see any reason why a Fed sci couldn't shine in the support role in the Atrox.

Carriers bring a lot to the table. They are the most versatile ships in the game, able to adapt their roles to any situation simply by changing what you load in the hangar.

I'd say give the Atrox a try. If only to learn a whole new aspect of Fed sci gameplay.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
05-19-2012, 07:05 PM
Because of the way I specced my character I don't think that the Atrox is a good choice. It isn't the fault of the platform; it is the unsuitability of the captain in question.

The tools at the disposal of a carrier include it's squadrons. I think that someone who wants to work with this is going to have an enjoyable experience experimenting with same. From a design/balance point of view the only sensible decision someone could make in designing a science vessel with these additional assets is finding a mechanism to limit it's science output. The low turn rate. I think they did a very good job designing the carrier as a result. While you can compensate for the deficiency it seems counterintuitive to play to weaknesses.

Science powers remind me of an escort. It's useless on offense unless you have the enemy off your bow. A science vessel doesn't need to be quite as quick (90's not 45's) but being able to place someone in the crosshairs is essential for effective disruption.

I did pick up the Nebula/Magellan and I find it a bit more sluggish than I would like (17.5 degrees/sec at full impulse). This is with a single RCS console. It looks like I'm going to have to test an Intrepid.
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