Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
05-21-2012, 12:06 AM
I'm glad people are starting to relize that a Sci/Sci setup is not as useless as folk claim it is. Truthfully, its not that sci abilities are nerfed, its that people either don't know how to spec their toons, setup their BOFFs, or use their powers effectively. I fly an Intrepid-R & I love flying it in PVP, & even some STFs. I have very little problems with it, in fact I can put out some impressive (at least to me) damage & kill numbers, even with only 6 weapon slots.

Here's my build:
Fore:
Polaron Cannon Mk XII [Acc]x3
Polaron Beam Array Mk XII [Acc]x2 [CritH]
Chroniton Torpedo Launcher Mk XII [Acc]x2 [CritH]
Rear:
Polaron Beam Array Mk XII [Acc]x2 [CritH]
Polaron Beam Array Mk XII [Acc] [CritH] [Dmg]
Hargh'Peng Torpedo Launcher Mk XI

Omega Force Tachyon Deflector Array Mk XII
Assimilated Subtranswarp Engines
Omega Force Shield Array Mk XII

Engineering Consoles:
Assimilated Module
SIF Generator Mk XI (Rare)
Neutronium Alloy Mk XI (Rare)
Science Consoles:
Ablative Generator
Point Defense System
Field Generator Mk XI (Rare) x2
Tactical Consoles:
Polaron Phase Modulator Mk XI (Rare) x2

Sci BOFF Abilities:
HE1; PH1; TSS1; TykR1; TB2; FBP2; ScT3; PSW3
Tac Abilities:
FAW1; TorSp2
Eng Abilities:
EPTS1; RSP1

DOFFs:
2 Projectile Weapons
Shield Distribution
Tractor Beam Officer
Development Lab Scientist
(All Very Rare)

Of course I have a Sub Nuc beam & I'm fully spec'ed into Flow Capacitors. I run the Omega Force shield & deflector because I've found that Tetryon Glider is more effective than the Polaron damage boost from the Jem'Hadar set. Also, with the Borg console & engine, I get the 2 piece set bonus of the "Autonomous Regeneration Sequencer" (free hull heal). I also have other BOFFs / DOFFs with other abilities that I can swap out if the circumstances call for it. My aim is not to be a pure healer or damage dealer. I'm geared to debuff the enemy & leave them open for further attack. If they pop in the process then "yay me". I'm not much of a healer but I throw them out if / when I can. My setup is effective for me & I like it. If it helps anyone else, then great. I like my Sci Captain & I like my Sci Ship. Thats all I have to say about that...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
05-21-2012, 02:10 AM
I got some discussion points for the above science vessel build. I'll write more when I have time.

In the meantime, I managed to work around the encoding errors that YouTube kept creating in my video.

New link for RSV shakedown cruise video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veDePT8mzgo

The above video demonstrates for the first part, random awesomeness, and in part 2, high speed long and short range skirmishing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
05-21-2012, 04:34 PM
I think the science nerf is more of a PvP issue Carmen. I doubt the Borg are putting all their skill points into resistance. Well Ill put it another way. They didnt nerf science. They actually buffed resistance.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
05-26-2012, 01:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren_Arcen
I'm glad people are starting to relize that a Sci/Sci setup is not as useless as folk claim it is. Truthfully, its not that sci abilities are nerfed, its that people either don't know how to spec their toons, setup their BOFFs, or use their powers effectively.

I agree with this to a point, but they sci powers do seem less effective in comparison to a like amount of skill investment in tactical or engineering. There just isn't as much 'bang for your buck' from them. And while my Neb is one of my favorite ships, it's just not as effective as my tac cruiser or escort, thus, I mission in it, but would never punish my team by bringing it to an stf. It feels irresponsible to me. The situational abilities of a sci officer are fun, but not terrible effective vs a like investment on either a tac or an eng.

I'm not saying this at all to be trolling, I spent the first four months on this game doing everything I could to make my sci competitive and spent a great deal of time on these forums learning about their abilities and ship builds/boff assignments. When you say "sci nerfed? Not really", my response after all of that work has to be "Yes, really".
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
05-26-2012, 02:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Moloch View Post
I agree with this to a point, but they sci powers do seem less effective in comparison to a like amount of skill investment in tactical or engineering. There just isn't as much 'bang for your buck' from them. And while my Neb is one of my favorite ships, it's just not as effective as my tac cruiser or escort, thus, I mission in it, but would never punish my team by bringing it to an stf. It feels irresponsible to me. The situational abilities of a sci officer are fun, but not terrible effective vs a like investment on either a tac or an eng.

I'm not saying this at all to be trolling, I spent the first four months on this game doing everything I could to make my sci competitive and spent a great deal of time on these forums learning about their abilities and ship builds/boff assignments. When you say "sci nerfed? Not really", my response after all of that work has to be "Yes, really".
Science isn't about damage though so the bang that you see is just the surface, Tac abilities only deal damage to the target (or only debuff the target) whereas Science abilities will usually damage and hold/ drain/ confuse/ placate the target at the same time, the problem is that confusing or placating an NPC is pretty much pointless so the only really useful abilities for Science ships in STFs are holds and power drains.
These work pretty well but they also rely on the rest of the group having the intelligence to notice that you've just left the Tac Cube sitting immobile with no shields, low weapons power and an anomaly destroying all HY torpedoes for the next 17 seconds so they really need to get on it quickly. When they do then you've just protected the Escorts from energy weapons fire (by draining weapons power), helped them get damage straight to hull instead of having to burn through a huge HP pool of Shields, reduced the Cubes own drains (by reducing its Aux power) and will also be carrying enough heals to support a Tac Escort through all but the nastiest invisible one shot whilst it finishes what you started.

Of course, most Science ships don't bother to debuff or support so become little more than Science heavy Cruisers with two missing weapons slots, becoming as useful as the Cruisers that also bring nothing but low damage and just throw heals at themselves whilst the Tac Escorts constantly run out of range to heal themselves.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
05-26-2012, 03:08 AM
I recently discovered how much fun the RSV can be, as I got one for an alternate toon and was swiftly hooked. Both of my main toons are tactical captains (not the smartest thing, but I'm working on leveling up more alternates), but in elite STF's I still have a couple of beefs with science...for instance, it seems impossible to take down Donatra's cloaking ability. Teammates and I have tried a whole slew of things that are supposed to disable cloaking devices and they simply don't work. I do also feel that a number of science abilities could use a boost...some of the less-often-used ones...to bring more variety. Anybody know if Viral Matrix does much against borg NPC's? Photonic Shockwave also seems underwhelming. Of course, I'm mainly a tac player so that is going to affect things.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
05-26-2012, 03:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Hans_Langsdorff
I recently discovered how much fun the RSV can be, as I got one for an alternate toon and was swiftly hooked. Both of my main toons are tactical captains (not the smartest thing, but I'm working on leveling up more alternates), but in elite STF's I still have a couple of beefs with science...for instance, it seems impossible to take down Donatra's cloaking ability. Teammates and I have tried a whole slew of things that are supposed to disable cloaking devices and they simply don't work. I do also feel that a number of science abilities could use a boost...some of the less-often-used ones...to bring more variety. Anybody know if Viral Matrix does much against borg NPC's? Photonic Shockwave also seems underwhelming. Of course, I'm mainly a tac player so that is going to affect things.
Viral Matrix is pretty much useless against any NPCs because the only threat they pose is through there kinetic weapons, something VM has no effect on. Getting a lucky Shield Offline might be nice but other than that VM won't do anything noticeable to an NPC as they don't actually use any of those power levels.

Donatra's cloak is a cheat, it's not affected by the usual abilities that disable cloak. Reducing her Aux (and increasing yours) helps a little but unless you're right on top of her she'll just cloak and be invisible. Even disables like CPB and EWP don't work against her.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
05-26-2012, 05:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Militis View Post
Science isn't about damage though
This is correct. It is also why sci powers are meaningless in this game, where ONLY dps matters. Sadly, I have performed the escort vs escort with bel team experiment, and in every case with two exceptions, a team is far better off having an escort in place of a science character and ship. Take that with a grain of salt, as it is only the sum of my experience, but as I mentioned, I went out of my way for a good long while trying to make it work. The system behind the skill setup is just too poorly designed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
05-27-2012, 05:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Moloch View Post
This is correct. It is also why sci powers are meaningless in this game, where ONLY dps matters. Sadly, I have performed the escort vs escort with bel team experiment, and in every case with two exceptions, a team is far better off having an escort in place of a science character and ship. Take that with a grain of salt, as it is only the sum of my experience, but as I mentioned, I went out of my way for a good long while trying to make it work. The system behind the skill setup is just too poorly designed.
I'd argue that the problem is with the way the PvE, and STFs in particular are arranged as a kill timer is always going to benefit the DPS class. If the Probes in KA Space couldn't be destroyed but weren't allowed to pass through the gate (just a simple example) then Science and Engineering CC abilities would be much more in demand but for all the STFs it's a pure damage thing with CC not really required unless the group is bad and the control is needed to tidy up the mess, which will usually be a PuG..
I can see the problem they had; with PuGs also having access there's a huge performance gap between the worst PuG and the best pre formed Fleet group yet they're all doing the same things with the same difficulty, what's impossible for one will be too easy for the other.

I still don't agree that Science abilities are useless though. I play both my characters in Escorts and Sciience and my job as an Escort is always far easier with a good Science ship debuffing the target and passing the occasional heal. A Cruiser holding aggro also works well but most don't bother so the damage dealing Escort will usually get it instead and I can't hold aggro on a Tac Cube for long and hope to survive (unless the Science ship has it neutered, something that they can still do very well). Probably just a personal preference but I can't think of anywhere that a Science ship would be a hindrance, even if it wouldn't perhaps be the best choice.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
05-27-2012, 09:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Militis View Post
Donatra's cloak is a cheat, it's not affected by the usual abilities that disable cloak. Reducing her Aux (and increasing yours) helps a little but unless you're right on top of her she'll just cloak and be invisible. Even disables like CPB and EWP don't work against her.
It doesn't disable it, but I find if I drop a GW on her it does reduce the duration of her cloak significantly.

Sometimes, it limits her cloak to only a handful of seconds.
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