Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 181
05-21-2012, 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuntKathy
All fair points. What I attempt to do when I post is to encourage thought on a subject and cut to the heart of a particular matter. Even, as in this thread, if the point is simply in encouraging more 'developed' means of expressing one's points. It doesn't need to be eloquent to be thought provoking. Don't let that stop you.



Whenever I post something with caveat.[word], it is a tongue-in-cheek reference to an IRC group back in the late 90's and their subsequent posts on usenet (in alt.irc). I participated heavily in said usenet group and IRC channels back in the day. Caveat, as most are aware, is a latin word meaning 'beware'. In this case, I was semi-jokingly (and semi-seriously) saying beware of semantics. Someone will nab you on it rather than seeing the overall point.

I do agree with the OP in some ways. But, I may not necessarily agree with how he arrived at his conclusions - or the entirety of said conclusions. In any event, I do agree with his sentiment.

That said, I do think the sentiment has come about for various reasons and I do not necessarily attribute the majority of that reality coming to fruition on the forums nor their posters. Rather, I attribute their reactions to what they see (or are not seeing) in game.

Your last sentence says it all for me; The things gold members have lost going F2P that we were told wouldn't happen, The removal of "currency" from the vet rewards (emblems) and no equivalent value replacement, The waiting months (and still waiting) for my 700 day vet reward, Being labeled ungrateful whiners (paraphrasing) by Cryptic because of the jem hadar giveaway backlash, THIS is what has damaged our community
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 182
05-21-2012, 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuntKathy
I've spent the last 30 minutes trying to find the post where we suggested this. Kyuui, The.Grand.Nagus, myself, and a couple others participated in a thread where we were concerned about the communications issues from Cryptic. Within the thread, we proposed exactly the same idea that Asakara did. It's not a new one and it's not even terribly outside of the known realm of logic to consider.
As I recall, this has been a recurring request: Not just relatively recently, but from a year or even a year and a half ago, since the first launcher-based poll. It has generally been acknowledged as a good idea that should be done much more frequently (with a handful of dissenters saying that Cryptic doesn't need to know what we want, and that Cryptic should do what they feel is best.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 183
05-21-2012, 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by V-Mink
As I recall, this has been a recurring request: Not just relatively recently, but from a year or even a year and a half ago, since the first launcher-based poll. It has generally been acknowledged as a good idea that should be done much more frequently (with a handful of dissenters saying that Cryptic doesn't need to know what we want, and that Cryptic should do what they feel is best.)
Well it seems that we should not give up on this point. We need to raise this request as loud as possible until it happens. There is no valid reason for it not to be implemented as soon as possible.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 184
05-21-2012, 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by V-Mink
As I recall, this has been a recurring request: Not just relatively recently, but from a year or even a year and a half ago, since the first launcher-based poll. It has generally been acknowledged as a good idea that should be done much more frequently (with a handful of dissenters saying that Cryptic doesn't need to know what we want, and that Cryptic should do what they feel is best.)
Yep. It's been proposed a few times. I did just find the link for the post I referenced here just a moment ago. It didn't seem like a brand new idea to me when I proposed it - and it doesn't seem like one now. It seemingly 'makes sense'.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 185
05-21-2012, 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuntKathy
Yep. It's been proposed a few times. I did just find the link for the post I referenced here just a moment ago. It didn't seem like a brand new idea to me when I proposed it - and it doesn't seem like one now. It seemingly 'makes sense'.
And I certainly have no problem with it; I would definitely like to see a lot more of these sorts of these things. While I have doubts that many more will be implemented, I do agree that it's a good thing to push for.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 186
05-21-2012, 05:19 PM
Further regarding Polls:

One of the great polls at TrekMovie.com is from January and his polls do not expire. Check it out and vote if you want to:

http://trekmovie.com/about/index/pollsarchive/



Have you played Star Trek Online?

Results are shown once you vote. Current totals are:

Yes – and still playing (16%)

Yes – and restarting with F2P (12%)

Yes – and not interested in restarting F2P (6%)

No – and considering/trying F2P (37%)

No – and not interested in F2P (19%)

Don’t have PC (9%)

Total Votes: 651
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 187
05-21-2012, 05:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkfat View Post
Yes.



No. I think most of us would love to someday love this game. That's why we're constantly yelling at you guys about what is dumb, stupid, unfair, broken, unfinished, incomplete, neglected, ignored, unbalanced, and underwhelming.
Pretty much that sums it up... I think for what most of us have bought in the C-Store is hoping that we can finally use the things we bought so that we can play a finished-continually developing game once it appears to be finished or better term is a more satisfied direction of development.

I agree to a point with Cryptic though about it needed more polish for players when starting out but I think they truly lost focus and in relation to what someone else said its more geared on nickel and dimeing the pockets of players who have started to play in the last 6 months. However we are not seeing anything for those of us who have been here a year or more or at the verge of having near 15+ characters with not really anything to do except doff/dilithium/stf grind.

More important the things they have been doing that IMO are a waste of time are the FE's they are a rush grind and they need to be reworked to being a status, crisis, etc that are not always the same imo and not time gated I've had enough of that crap I don't even do defera, vault, or any of that its gotta be on my terms since I am the customer not theirs. Basically its going to come down to territorial control of a pve and pvp nature as well as status changes in alpha quadrant or any other space that is opened up in 10 years or so at current development rates and the foundry is another aspect too. Being this an IP of Star Trek and the little development that has gone into the foundry and the severe limitations of rules on what you can and can't make it with it... They need to make it feel more like fun to us and not like we are unpaid employees of theirs that give them money.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 188
05-21-2012, 05:40 PM
Quote:
To sum it up
I think that the STO community has lost it's way. We are fractured into dozens of smaller camps, that fails to be analytic about topics and provide a solid discussion, and recognize the pros and cons of the opposing opinion of things.

Every discussion eventually turns into the STO variant of Goodwins law, the lockboxes, and somehow we always manage to derail posts using that.

We may even to some degree have scared the Dev's away or "forced" PWE into imposing a non communication policy, by twisting and turning dev words, sending them to blogging sites and by that making them feel unwelcome or unappreciated.
to sum it all up:

your whole post is condescending and offensive. you're blaming the players, accusing them of 'twisting' peoples words when they are not. and you are making excuses for cryptic for its poor treatment of the community. by the way, nobody was 'slinging mud' at the devs comment. he should know better than to make the comments he did in public, regardless of where they are. hes not the first dev to do something like that either. in any other company he'd have been called into the boss's office and chewed out for saying what he did, at best.

Quote:
Apparently I have failed to make myself clear.

This thread isn't about content in the game... or C-Store items... Or lock-boxes.

I am not sure why people are headed straight for the Lock-boxes every time... That's for another thread... Really...

Or has this thread already become subject to Goodwins law?
you really don't get it do you. why do lockboxes keep coming up? the answer should be obvious: its an important issue. its the latest 'screw you, we'll do what we want and if you don't like it GTFO' cryptic has been feeding us for a long time now. its not a topic for another thread. ignoring problems doesn't make those problems go away

Quote:
There is no single 'community', there never has been. I never get why people think there is and keep saying things about what the 'community' wants. People have different interests in the game and have had them since before beta.
bs. there is one community. there is only one community. there has only ever been and ever will be one community. people in that community may want different things but that does not mean there is more than one community

Quote:
A united stand IS impossible... And the day everyone agrees on what should be done, is the day the game dies... H*ell... I bet even the Devs disagree on what should be done with individual elements...
what? the entire community knows that the game needs content. the entire community wants content. that sounds like a united stand to me. they also all want the game to survive and do well. thats also a united stand

Quote:
"Community" is a B.S. Internet marketing term. If we're not sharing the same property taxes, we're not in a community.

We are customers. Cryptic is a service provider.
its not a marketing term. the community is made up of those customers

Quote:
And while Cryptic sometimes really mess up, that's to be expected to a very high degree.
no it isn't. competent developers do not 'mess up to a very high degree'

Quote:
Oh you mean the time when the spin reached the point that it was used to keep us subbing despite no actual content being produced ? When a certain EP played a certain non existent FE ?
indeed. and thats only one example

Quote:
In my opinion Cryptic needs to come up with a clear, decisive and - most importantly - reliable plan for the future of the game (and all that rather sooner than later)
they had one. you know, multiple FEs a year, a completed KDF faction, more story content, etc... only to turn around a month later saying the exact opposite was going to happen

Quote:
The boxes are here to stay by the time the 7th box gets released everyone will finally be used to it or learned to deal with it.
they are already under investigation in at least one country that we know of for illegal activity. if one tells them to put a stop to it, others will as well.

Quote:
I would LOVE to hear from some form of rep from Cryptic at least saying "yes we hear you" dont have to aknoledge that you understand our complaints and are going to fix it just say "we hear you." Is that to much to ask?
they do that frequently. its cryptics way of making people think they are actually paying attention so people will shut up

Quote:
Exactly. CCP went through issues very similar to this last year. They fixed it by dedicating devs to fix all the little things in the game that bugged people, and then listening to and talking with the community. Cryptic should take the same path.
CCP only worked with the community to put a stop to their own bs that started the whole situation in the first place because if they hadn't they would have pushed their community over the breaking point. they would have fractured the community to the point that either they left in massive numbers or started some kind of civil war within eve to essentially hold the game hostage till the problems were fixed. don't think their apology was out of the goodness of CCPs heart

Quote:
The worst part of this, to me, Some, maybe even most of those who are now, skeptics, are this way, because of, them. We bought the line for a full KDF. We bought the line, on PVP improvements. We bought the line on Multiple FE releases. We, were willing to believe them. They, unfortunately, for many reasons, all of which, are now, completely irrelevant, and invalid, did not deliver
the reasons are neither irrelevant nor invalid, under any circumstances. the reality is they lied through their teeth about that from day one

Quote:
Another part of the problem is the community thinks not getting their way is the same as getting ignored. And its not.
this has nothing to do with people 'not getting their way'

Quote:
I am very confident that Cryptic is doing the best that it can do
if the last two years are an example of the best cryptic can do than this game is in serious trouble

[quote]• This is a video game for leisure entertainment. It is a luxury.
• Not giving you an official personal or general reply does not mean your comment was ignored.
• Ideas you may think are good may not be.
• It is Cryptic's game and you lease a license to access it. It is not your game.
• Cryptic gets final word on their game. You can take it or leave it.[/qiuote]

1. being a luxury has nothing to do with it
2. the fact that our comments are ignored means our comments are ignored. history has shown that
3. the same could be said for ideas that cryptic claims are good. you know, like lockboxes
4. who's game it is is irrelevant. we pay for this game
5. cryptic doesn't get the final word on anything. we are the customers. we put money in their pockets. we decide how much we will take. the final word is us no longer paying them and leaving them because we end up getting screwed over one too many times

and yet again, you told people 'if you don't like it, leave'

Quote:
• Moral concepts like right or wrong have nothing to do with it. Money talks.
excuse me? there are right ways and wrong ways to make money. shady business practices very much have alot to do with it. by your logic selling drugs would be fine because they make money and 'money talks' but nobody here would be ok if cryptic were to start doing that

Quote:
Lies And Hyperbole Do Not Help Your Case:

When you make up fake stuff, you may fool some people, but it is doubtful you will fool everybody. Somebody may call you on it, in which case it makes you look deceitful when you can not back it. Now how does marking ones self publicly as deceitful help promote your cause?
you should be telling this to cryptic not us. they're the ones lying to us on a regular basis

Quote:
Everybody is not you. You are you. Saying for example "Everybody hates lock boxes" right off the shows that person is prone to hyperbole
everyone who has an ounce of intelligence does hate lockboxes. if they would support having illegal gambling going on in this game, especially one targeted toward minors, that should be saying something about them right there

Quote:
In my opinion, this game gets a lot better when you avoid the forums.
in other words you prefer to bury your head in the sand and avoid reality. you also essentially insulted the entire forum with that comment

Quote:
eah.. No. Name calling is not ok. Sorry. Try to justify it all you want but it is one of those no-no's here.

Anyways.. I guess I hit a button or something.. Good discussion there AuntKathy even though it was not.
auntkathy was not name calling. you were behaving as an apologist and have done so in many other posts. you only proved her point by trying to turn it around on her

Quote:
Personally I would like to see more official polls on the client launcher which forces everyone to either take part or skip past it before they can play.
so would I, but it won't happen. they probably wouldn't like the results they got

Quote:
They don't need polls, they have back end metrics
those metrics can be misrepresented, lied about and who knows what else to support any claim they make. they are not reliable. public polls are not so easy to tamper with. the data is there for all to see

Quote:
Our actions speak louder then our feelings. That's why all the anger about lockboxes falls on deaf ears.
according to who? I have yet to see anyone provide any proof that these lockboxes are selling as well as cryptic claims they are
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 189
05-21-2012, 06:45 PM
Back end Metrics, will always miss a very important thing, one that no matter what, unless they ask, they will never know, and that lack of knowledge will cause them issues. A poll can be used to find out that information, IF they word it correctly. However a questionnaire is much better suited for information gathering when they are trying to gain knowledge. A well worded Questionnaire, will get a multitude of information and open a much better window into a person than a simple 5 line poll.

Back end metrics, for the record, never record, why you ARE NOT in game. Polls can, to a point, a questionnaire, well worded, will get you that information, and more.

I've not logged in, in 4 days, Why? Because, I have literally run out of anything in the game that interests me. Doffs now are boring to me. STF? hardly, 'm not interested in RNG grind. FE? I've done all but the new one, at least 2x on every character, some, even more. The new FE, bugged up on me 3x on the first mission, I gave up at that point. In the last 4 days, I've spent 100.00 USD on entertainment, some of which, could have gone to them, but didn't.

The Continual lack of communications, the intentional acts of making it more difficult to find out things about the game in an easy fashion, have finally hit the point with me, that I no longer will look for ways to entertain myself in game. I don't want to spend 20-30 minutes a day chasing down tweets, blogs, face book posts and everything else, its not worth it to me. Other games I play have all the information I need right where I need it, in one place, and normally, its one click away. Cryptic, doesn't.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 190
05-21-2012, 08:10 PM
Quote:
The community - Are we loosing our way?

No! Perfect World and Cryptic lost its way!
Reply

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