Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
05-20-2012, 07:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anazonda View Post
Apparently I have failed to make myself clear.

This thread isn't about content in the game... or C-Store items... Or lock-boxes.

I am not sure why people are headed straight for the Lock-boxes every time... That's for another thread... Really...

Or has this thread already become subject to Goodwins law?
Sir, I represent the Lockbox Police. Would you please step outside your car and prepare to have this thread merged with the other lockbox threads. By saying the word "lockbox" you have activate the "Thread-Merge Protocol 666".

Please be kind. Rewind.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
05-20-2012, 07:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anazonda View Post
People used to be very elaborate when they were advocates for the next faction. There were some really creative posts out there that were incredibly convincing... now it is down to "Rommies should be next cause they are really cool and sneaky".
At the risk of sounding aggressive, I posit that you all but posed a couple of answers in this particular iteration of your question.

First, it's all been said before. Personally, for nearly any issue that I might once have been concerned with, I know I'd be hard-pressed to offer new arguments, or even old arguments in a fresher light. In the Rommie example, people have already extolled the virtues of a third faction from every angle from canon to faction specialization to gameplay - what's left to be said that can't be summed up by "Rommies are cool?"

Second, advocating takes effort - and it may be that the people most inclined to advocate have already done so, and seen their efforts come to naught. So why would they continue to bother? Heck, I used to throw down where I could in the old KDF Forum Wars, but that doesn't seem to have done much good, so I've completely left the fight to people more stubborn and/or invested than me.

Quote:
I saw that idea... But did not want to post... Not sure why... Guess that is another issue... The good ideas don't get the community support to stay on top, and get a chance to get noticed.
I know exactly what bothers me about CaptainQuirk's suggestion. It's a good effort, and I applaud him for it... but if Cryptic released that as a policy statement, I'd simply shrug and say "I'll believe it when I see it." It wouldn't inspire any confidence at all.

I suspect this is what you're seeing, but not quite realizing - frustration is turning to either desperation or outright apathy, and neither are exactly conducive to constructive argument (and oddly enough, this sentence is exactly why I rarely post anymore - if the best I can muster is apathy, what's the point?). I don't know if there's a way to change that, short of Cryptic actually generating some solid gameplay features with the different facets of the IP firmly in mind.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
05-20-2012, 07:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by piwright42 View Post
I think sometimes we forget that though we may be at odds with a community member in one thread we can be their allies in another. Many of the people that have posted in this thread I have smacked skulls with in another thread. That is how I maintain my sense of community. I make a point to start with a whole new sheet when I go into a new thread. With the exception of two community members since I joined the forums this has held true.
Good policy, and I try to do the same. But lord help me, there's some noses that I just can't help but tweak...

Quote:
I belong to an outside STO forum about STO and to be honest we seldom have the drama we see here on the main site. It seems to me that smaller communities seem to engender greater respect for one another as each member is that much more precious.
That's doubtless a factor. It also seems to happen with older forums in more stable games (excluding the 10-million sub elephant) - large volume churn is just plain bad for "community," no matter how it's defined.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
05-20-2012, 07:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolikos
At the risk of sounding aggressive, I posit that you all but posed a couple of answers in this particular iteration of your question.

I think I (reluctantly) confessed that in my OP... If not, that's surely one thing I should have been more... elaborate on. But I won't go around "fixing" them to more elaborate posts. I take that responsibility for thoose posts and it's kinda the reason I am trying to fix it now, and ahead.

First, it's all been said before. Personally, for nearly any issue that I might once have been concerned with, I know I'd be hard-pressed to offer new arguments, or even old arguments in a fresher light. In the Rommie example, people have already extolled the virtues of a third faction from every angle from canon to faction specialization to gameplay - what's left to be said that can't be summed up by "Rommies are cool?"

You and I may be, but there are alot of "2012"'s out there, who havn't been heard yet. Some of those might have some interesting perspective on things?
And yes... I too have posted "We've been over this"-posts in those new threads, but looking back, some of those guys have some ideas that at a very least are so old, that I could not remember it having been said before.


Second, advocating takes effort - and it may be that the people most inclined to advocate have already done so, and seen their efforts come to naught. So why would they continue to bother? Heck, I used to throw down where I could in the old KDF Forum Wars, but that doesn't seem to have done much good, so I've completely left the fight to people more stubborn and/or invested than me.

I know exactly what bothers me about CaptainQuirk's suggestion. It's a good effort, and I applaud him for it... but if Cryptic released that as a policy statement, I'd simply shrug and say "I'll believe it when I see it." It wouldn't inspire any confidence at all.

No one can blame you or anyone else for that. But at least it would be new and surprising, would it not? Who knows... People might start to talk

I suspect this is what you're seeing, but not quite realizing - frustration is turning to either desperation or outright apathy, and neither are exactly conducive to constructive argument (and oddly enough, this sentence is exactly why I rarely post anymore - if the best I can muster is apathy, what's the point?). I don't know if there's a way to change that, short of Cryptic actually generating some solid gameplay features with the different facets of the IP firmly in mind.

I realize it quite well. I just think that you, and the other people here, while being maybe dissapointed, frustrated and angry about it, have the capacity and somewhere deep down the will, to try to turn it into something better...
If we show a turn of attitude, maybe it will ripple through the game... And if that dosen't turn things around... It's too late anyways.


Said above
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
05-20-2012, 08:11 AM
One Problem with the community I see heavily here is that some people that "have ideas" or "visions"...
They write it down, post it and expect that Cryptic takes their plan and use it fully...
And then get angry because they "ignored" this plan and keep on ranting on how the community has SO much ideas and plans and Cryptic is ignoring everything...

While nearly EVERY so called "plan for the future" is barely half a page long and as thought out as paper is thin...
Like, we scream just a single word and expect and demand that Cryptic writes us an Epic in the fashion and length of a whole Collection of Ancient Greek Philosophers.

So to be clear, the inherent problem I see is the massive entitlement which probably stems from its roots in Star Trek (and we all know it was not a bit better before STO, in respect to other Games, TV Series and Movies).
We see this game, we see Star Trek and we feel this duty calling that WE, the long time fans, must save it and everyone who ignores us must be completely nuts, while we claim that our idea is THE idea, that we speak for everyone, coming from a collective chanting and representing the wishes and brains from all of us.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
05-20-2012, 08:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SelorKiith View Post
One Problem with the community I see heavily here is that some people that "have ideas" or "visions"...
They write it down, post it and expect that Cryptic takes their plan and use it fully...
And then get angry because they "ignored" this plan and keep on ranting on how the community has SO much ideas and plans and Cryptic is ignoring everything...
But what if it's true?

I cba right now to dig out the source, but afaik a dev said that the current system of ship tiers makes it progressively harder to design new ships that are mechanically in some way different from any existing ship (console layout, BOFF layout, etc). What happened? Suricata appeared out of nowhere, presenting an extremely well thought out solution to the problem. It took BranFlakes 4 weeks to notify us that he forwarded the idea to the devs. And then there's silence - till today the suggestion has neither been acknowledged nor declined.

I don't think Suricata made the thread with the idea because he felt "entitled", he rather wanted to improve the game and provide a better alternative to the current tier system that has a broom stuck in its rear end. And the response from the devs was silence, not even a "Sorry but we can't implement this because we would have to completely rewrite the ship mechanics for that" or something like that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
05-20-2012, 08:23 AM
I've been trying to figure out how to respond to your post since I read it, and finally with your last reply there is something I can latch onto as a place to talk about where I am coming from.

You and I may be, but there are alot of "2012"'s out there, who havn't been heard yet. Some of those might have some interesting perspective on things?
And yes... I too have posted "We've been over this"-posts in those new threads, but looking back, some of those guys have some ideas that at a very least are so old, that I could not remember it having been said before.


This. I hope that some of us who joined during F2P have some valuable input. At the very least, it's a whole bunch of new sets of eyes and ways of thinking about (maybe) some of the same problems. That alone makes this call to whatever this is actually a call to worthwhile.

I also think that what I have seen since joining the game and actually using the forums, is more or less a Bash fest on the game and Devs. Sure sometimes people have something nice to say, but (understandably) people are mad about recent trends and they express it (sometimes in rotten nasty ways). But when the forums have become a place of mostly nothing positive about the thing you do...

Personally, if the majority of the feedback I received about my job from the public was negative, yet money was being made, and i could feed myself and my loved ones, so obviously in the moment I am fine. (I know that's not a big , long term picture kind of thinking , but you see my point ?) I would probably tend to not try and engage in truly constructive discussions in that public forum. It just wouldn't be worth it.

Now, I am not a PvP guy, but I give Gozer big props for the weekly update and really communicating about what's in the pipe for PvP. It's actually got me interested. We need more communication and conversation like is happening in those discussions.

Basically, I agree with the OP in a whole lot of ways. I think the first step , or a big first step will be convincing the Lifers/Golds who view the F2P crowd as the invading enemy who ruined the game that silvers are not the demons we are sometimes made to be. Despite the current hope (need) for big improvements in many ways, the money that going F2P brought to the game has been a help to keeping STO around. My opinion is ... we all are here because we are enjoying this game. Lets find ways to speak with a united voice about the things that truly ... TRULY need to be addressed.

Imagine a letter. Mail or Email, circulated around as far as we could get it, filled with signatures about any of the number of problems. Signed by hundreds if not thousands of players. 1 item (problem) at a time.


Anyhow, I am rambling now.
Peace !
See You All Around the Galaxy !
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
05-20-2012, 08:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anazonda View Post
realize it quite well. I just think that you, and the other people here, while being maybe dissapointed, frustrated and angry about it, have the capacity and somewhere deep down the will, to try to turn it into something better...
If we show a turn of attitude, maybe it will ripple through the game... And if that dosen't turn things around... It's too late anyways.
I'll admit up front that I no longer have that capacity. I could say why, but it would involve a long list of issues going back from before beta (and not all of it had to do with the KDF). I'd like to think I maintained a more-or-less positive (though perhaps aggressive and abrasive) attitude for as long as I could. At the very least, I maintained some faith that Cryptic could and would "make things right" at least in a small way somehow somewhere.

But there's a last straw for every camel's back, and everything I've seen since convinces me that Cryptic simply is no longer concerned with making a great game (if, indeed, they ever were).

Long story short, I think it's too late. There are conditions under which I'll gladly come back to the game, but I just don't see Cryptic making any moves in any directions that would pique my interest, and I just don't see the point in advocating for things that I'm convinced will never happen.

More power to ya, though, if you feel otherwise.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
05-20-2012, 09:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baelturath

In my opinion Cryptic needs to come up with a clear, decisive and - most importantly - reliable plan for the future of the game (and all that rather sooner than later). They should split their team into 3 groups:
* a small team that only works on the small things that are bugging the community (typos, inconsistent descriptions, UI improvements, etc.)
* a large team that only works on providing long overdue polish and updates (crafting revamp, sector map revamp, exploration revamp, mission revamps, etc.)
* a large team that only works on new content (new STFs, new PvP modes, new missions, etc.)

Cryptic is standing at the same edge CCP was standing with EVE Online some time ago. They put out payment features the community hated and the things the community wanted, and what the game needed, suffered because of it. The players got up in riots all over the game, including media coverage also in non-gaming newspapers. Finally CCP got their act together and focused on making the game better instead of flooding the game with payment things everyone hated.
Agree 100%
I even think Cryptic is now working full time, and am very glad about that.

The only problem is - they don't say a word.. so we can only tell them over and over again what our wishes are and hope for the best.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
05-20-2012, 09:38 AM
The community is right to be angry. Perfect World and Cryptic seem to ONLY care about making money at this point.

In my opinion they no longer care about the Star Trek franchise and what it represents. And they could care less about the community has long has they can continue squeezing every last dime they can.
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