Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
I'm growing to like Massively these days...

massively.joystiq.com/2012/05/17/the-perfect-ten-the-truth-about-lockboxes/

Quote:
1. Lockboxes are gambling, plain and simple.

If anyone tries to refute the above claim to you, then be prepared to listen to a chain of logic so twisted and bent that it's probably been run through a yoga class. The simple truth of all this is that you're plunking down a set amount of real-world money for a possibility of getting a reward you desire. It's gambling.

It's gambling... except it's worse.

You know what would be weird? If you walked into a casino and none of the machines or tables told you the odds. Everything else would be the same: the payout, the mechanics, the money required to play, but no odds. Just give us your money and hope you win but never have a clue how great or small your chances are of actually winning.

That is lockboxes in a nutshell. Nobody's forcing MMO studios to disclose odds, and it's in their best interests to not do it. They wouldn't want to scare away those pocketbooks, after all!
More at the link.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
05-17-2012, 09:35 AM
every keeps talking about odds....

There is no gaming commission regulating this. There may be NO ODDs or the odds may not work or they could change the odds at will. To me thats the inherent problem with this this form of "gambling"

Lets play what if... What if CBS said "only 5% of your playerbase can have a ship" and the boxes ar designed to pay out that many ships.....

Anyway for me its no longer the LBs that are the issue but the Lobi store..... Every Lobi = $1. So when something costs 200 Lobi thats like saying it costs $200. The expectation is that someone will open 200, 500, 800 boxes. Its a worse gimmick than a ship. Frankly it seems predatory to me.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
05-17-2012, 09:37 AM
1 lobi - 10 cents on average (you get about 10 per box)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
05-17-2012, 09:39 AM
Massively are legal experts now?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
05-17-2012, 09:39 AM
Want to make a statement? Don't buy keys... Or go occupy some where.... that seems to work too right?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
05-17-2012, 09:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Issueman
Want to make a statement? Don't buy keys... Or go occupy some where.... that seems to work too right?
#occupybajor?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
05-17-2012, 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
1 lobi - 10 cents on average (you get about 10 per box)
you do? you have statistical proof on that? Seriously, if you do you should post it, otherwise you aren't going to get a lot of traction with it.
Considering the uproar on the single crystals in the box, I would doubt your claim, because it sure seems like a lot more folks get 1, and not 10, if you use the forums as a reference, which, is all I can, because I will not do anything that can get me a lock box. I haven't played the vault, any of the reruns, anything. Nor, have I spent money on the game. Why? I don't support the lock boxes. Period. I have said and I will say it here, take the costumes out of the Lobi store, put them in the C store, I'll buy them. I will support the game through store purchases on things I want, I will not, however do so via the lock boxes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
05-17-2012, 09:49 AM
Yikes, this is getting rather heated. I got the impression that TeriLynn's articles were pretty neutral in tone; what triggered all this from Massively?

Some of the elements in that list are written in a pretty clearly biased point of view -- I get the strong impression the person is an STO player considering the graphic posted there for #1! The author clearly hates lockboxes general and in STO in particular

I'm wiling to acknowledge the 'It's gambling" point as being hazy -- again, only a court of law can make that determination. But I too am disappointed that the lockbox odds have never been posted; the Nevada Gaming Commission comes down REALLY hard on casinos that don't make this sort of thing abundantly clear, or slot machine manufacturers who don't publish and adhere to the odds.* He's pretty right about how the house always wins, though there is marked more effort in making a Cardassian 'joy-cruiser' as there is an XP potion. The cruiser needs to be modeled, textured, rigged; it needs coding support, it needs systems support; it needs to at least have a token attempt at balancing it. I do find it interesting to delve more into the reasons why so many countries have made such boxes illegal -- is that why PW games are 'banned' from a shopping list of countries? Some of the other points he brings up are rather more subjective than objective.

He was absolutely spot-on with one thing, though: Lockboxes cheapen any game that adopts them.


* - Side-note: Some mathematical definitions of 'random' are more desirable in certain circumstances than others. "Chaotic," for example, is not the same as "random."

I suspect that one of the reasons that Cryptic doesn't publish the lockbox odds is because their random system lacks the rigor of, say, a slot machine, and once you put any iota of data into the playerbase's hands, they will worry over it and gnaw on it and spreadsheet it, and next thing you know there's a database of confirmed drops and they're showing you exactly how your odds-sorted drop table is not as accurate as you thought it was.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
05-17-2012, 09:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmera
Massively are legal experts now?
you're a legal expert now?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
05-17-2012, 09:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
1 lobi - 10 cents on average (you get about 10 per box)
2 to 3 is the average you will get.
Reply

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