Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
06-04-2012, 07:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHale View Post
Someone has a lot of confidence in the people who brought us Voldy 1-9, the MACO shield bug, Jem Shield Doff bug, shield stacking, 100% disables, and the like, lol.

I would just point out that, two years of relative inaction aside, they did quite literally say that they could take or leave PvP. It's in the very first of the "weekly" updates.
Still... I'd trust myself to their judgement rather than any player... The n00bs can't see the consequences, and the pros want the game to fit their style. Many of the best players in the game have been embracing clearly broken things. Cryptic at least is impartial. (albeit not effective)

Yeah, they wouldn't miss the current pvpers in their income statement, and they are at the point where they have to fix it or leave it, but I say giving it to gozer is a strong statement. STO now, is in the hands of what may be said to be the top dev. The one dev (phaps aside from Heretic) who has the ability and authority to change whole sections of the game. I'm sure they could have found lots of nice things to use him for, and they gave him to PvP. That speaks loudly to me!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
06-04-2012, 08:41 AM
That noobs are clueless and pros are out only for themselves is a gross over simplification. Those are only two types and two motives. People tend to embrace things that are available. Many are still trying to get the problems fixed.

I'm marginally clueless and I'm far from pro but I avoid these bad mechanics. We come here to talk about it and hope that someone is paying attention. They didn't give him to PvP. He took it. That might be great but it's too soon to tell. If the past is any indication I think cautious skepticism is reasonable.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
06-04-2012, 10:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dassem_Ultor
Well, if they removed a captain power like APA, or a boff power like CRF, that would also make you not win. That an ability can make your build successful doesn't make it OP or unbalanced. Before, consoles had only passive effects, now they are slottable abilities as well.
and if i take your ship off and let u floating in space just with bunch of stone to throw to the enemys, u won't kill nothing neither lol. Capitan skills and boff skills are the base of this game, don't compare with the p2w consoles skills, what u said have no sense at all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dassem_Ultor
Somewhere the line has to be drawn, and the closest thing to an impartial judge is Cryptic. The PSW3 killers will never agree that PSW3 is borked, any more than the FAW3 of past agreed that FAW was broken. On the other hand, there are people crying that CRF3 or DHCs are unbalanced. Only when the devs say something is "not as intended" it will become unethical to use it. The decision of what is wrong to use can not be left to the users.

Just because something is powerfull, that no means that is unbalanced. Many p2w consoles are game breaking, is not a problem of simple balance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dassem_Ultor
The devs admitted this? I never heard such a thing... Ofc they don't, but for them to admit it... Anyway, so YOU will be the judge of what is wrong to use or unbalanced? Or a group of the most vocal PvPers? I'm not comfortable with that....
Read the first "PVP weekly update".


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dassem_Ultor
As I wrote in the OP, I do have some of these consoles, and I do feel bad about using them, not because I find them OP, but because I get P2W thrown at me. Who plays fair anyway? 95% of the players I face have some sort of C-point device that makes them stronger. Oddy, MVAM, consoles etc. The consoles are not the most unbalanced thing you get from the shop. You will yell "P2W n00b!" at anyone using something that wasn't in the game at launch? The game is changing, play is changing, and insulting players who adapt to the changes is nothing but griefing IMO. Cry to the devs about it, not those who use what they are given. When a dev says "this needs change", it's a different issue altogether. Then there is something wrong with the game, and only then it's not fair play to use it. If some random player says it, or some limited group, it holds no weight. Abilities that are annoying are unfortunately part of the game, but this is not the fault of whoever uses them.

Btw: AMS I don't have, and the assimilator I use only on my STF drain-build. The only console i use regularly in PvP is the leech. And sometimes the subspace jump.
As i said, this post is just you trying to justify the use of p2w consoles using the argument "because devs don't say is broken, then is working fine, don't u see the fail in your logic? Keep using them if u want, but don't try to convince others that they are ok, because they don't
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
06-04-2012, 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by playhard88
and if i take your ship off and let u floating in space just with bunch of stone to throw to the enemys, u won't kill nothing neither lol. Capitan skills and boff skills are the base of this game, don't compare with the p2w consoles skills, what u said have no sense at all.

(...)

As i said, this post is just you trying to justify the use of p2w consoles using the argument "because devs don't say is broken, then is working fine, don't u see the fail in your logic? Keep using them if u want, but don't try to convince others that they are ok, because they don't
And the consoles are NOT part of the game??? Your logic eludes me...

This is STO today. STO has universal consoles. It didn't before, but now it does. Don't try to pretend it's something it's not. Are they a good part of the game? Not all of them, but they are still part of it. Calling them gamebreaking can not be justified IMO, they're no IWIN button. Most of them are actually more of a wasted console slot... But you have to adapt to them, as to any boff ability.

These consoles upset the status quo, and the builds that were good before may be less good now, but we have also gotten a lot of new build opportunities. This is not the same STO as before the consoles, and while I find it different, I don't find it worse. (at least I wouldn't if they tweaked console balance a little)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
06-04-2012, 04:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom
Do you really want the good fleets to start using AMS/GravPulse/... en masse?
Cause they aren't already? i lol'd...

The most competitive people will always use the most competitive tools at their disposal.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 46
06-05-2012, 03:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dassem_Ultor
And the consoles are NOT part of the game??? Your logic eludes me...

This is STO today. STO has universal consoles. It didn't before, but now it does. Don't try to pretend it's something it's not. Are they a good part of the game? Not all of them, but they are still part of it. Calling them gamebreaking can not be justified IMO, they're no IWIN button. Most of them are actually more of a wasted console slot... But you have to adapt to them, as to any boff ability.

These consoles upset the status quo, and the builds that were good before may be less good now, but we have also gotten a lot of new build opportunities. This is not the same STO as before the consoles, and while I find it different, I don't find it worse. (at least I wouldn't if they tweaked console balance a little)
of course they are part of the game, if not we will not having the discussion. And they are not IWIN button, is right, but if u know how to use them is almost a certain win, a premade (or even just 1 or 2 players with the proper build..) can easy win a match just using those consoles if they know how, u probably won't understand this point until u see it in action (for example AMS+scamble sensors, plasmonic leach+aceton assimilator+tyken rift or sphion drones, etc..they are many way of use this consoles in order to make an IWIN combo), and in the case of pugs there are enought gamebreaking for ruin the gameplay in the most of the cases
I have no problem with universal consoles, for example i think borg and ferengi set consoles are good consoles, they give u an small -but usefull- boost to some stats, and no a uber skill.
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