Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
05-23-2012, 10:20 AM
to 3)
If you consider that Aircrafts actually carry most powerfull weapons right now, your argument falls appart.
submarines...in mass smaller than carriers carry nuclear weapons.

frigates or small cruisers have enough payload to level small towns, so do submarines or carrier based aircrafts.

Energy weapons just don't work the way chemically propelled projectiles worked. There is no need for a massive gun to fire energy based weapons. Same goes for rockets, a handheld launcher can take out tanks, bunkers, planes, etc...
The difference is, that for example the enterprise e has about 8 to 9 torpedo launchers and the defiant has 2.

But if there is only one target infront of you, you don't need 8 or 4 in your aft section. But during combat, when the ship is heavely dmged, the defiant may need to retreat, due to weapons failure etc. The larger cruiser can stay and fire from it's additionalweapons...compared to the game, escorts are more squishy cruisers can take a beating for a longer duration. i guess that was the design intend.

In star trek it was never really stated that torpedos travel warp. It is seen, that they fire torpedos while moving at warp, but they also fire phasers and disruptors at warp sometimes.

to 2)
I can only explain this that way: The torpedo or phaser beam travels inside the warp bubble as if it was normal space. thats why they need to be so close to fire at targets when traveling at warp. the weapon must not enter normal space, it travels from bubble A to bubble B, in "normal space" not subspace. But thats just an assumption.

to 1)
It's not a gas, it's plasma...4th condition of matter. solid, liquid, gas, plasma....very, very, very, hot
the other thing is radiation

to 4)
fighters (BOP) die pretty quick anyway, and have a long cooldown. I guess thats just an balancing issue, but i guess it would be pretty stupid to start some BOP only to watch them dying to a scatter volley before they do anything.

to 5)
the teleportation thing is something you need to live with in a scifi game, or fantasy game or a game in general. But i guess the show did show some occasions where exactly that happens, so it needs no further explanation.

PS:I guess Alexin_cobra will not be convinced that his assumptions are wrong...as usual
And it really is nothing the DEVs should pay any attention to, at the current state of the game.
and srsly: whats up with the ninja outfit?

sense is not since...only one makes sense here
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
05-23-2012, 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raudl View Post
to 3)
If you consider that Aircrafts actually carry most powerfull weapons right now, your argument falls appart.
submarines...in mass smaller than carriers carry nuclear weapons.

frigates or small cruisers have enough payload to level small towns, so do submarines or carrier based aircrafts.

Energy weapons just don't work the way chemically propelled projectiles worked. There is no need for a massive gun to fire energy based weapons. Same goes for rockets, a handheld launcher can take out tanks, bunkers, planes, etc...
The difference is, that for example the enterprise e has about 8 to 9 torpedo launchers and the defiant has 2.
Just to chime in here, but technically the Defiant has 4 torpedo launchers and 4 forward mounted cannons, and the Sovereign class has 12 phaser banks scattered at various points across it's hull, so like with all ships, it's not able to use ALL of them at once unless they are truly surrounded from all sides above, below, forward, behind, and to the left and right of the ship.

A ship of it's size can accumulate that many phaser banks, while the Defiant was intentionally designed to focus it's attacks ahead of it. The fact that it's cannons are physically integrated into the hull design allows for the engines to focus many magnitudes more power into the shots it fires compared to a regular phaser.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
05-23-2012, 11:38 AM
Quote:
Just to chime in here, but technically the Defiant has 4 torpedo launchers and 4 forward mounted cannons, and the Sovereign class has 12 phaser banks scattered at various points across it's hull, so like with all ships, it's not able to use ALL of them at once unless they are truly surrounded from all sides above, below, forward, behind, and to the left and right of the ship.

A ship of it's size can accumulate that many phaser banks, while the Defiant was intentionally designed to focus it's attacks ahead of it. The fact that it's cannons are physically integrated into the hull design allows for the engines to focus many magnitudes more power into the shots it fires compared to a regular phaser.
very true and should leave no more room for more specualtions. You summed it up perfectly.

some people will still not be convinced.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
05-23-2012, 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexin_Cobra View Post
This is something the DEVs should pay attention to.


1) A gas that kills the crew? Really? Who thought of that one? They must not know "jack" about space. In space you are in an airtight ship, how could you die from a gas outside your ship?

2) Escorts outruning torpedos? How can a ship at impulse outrun a weapon moving at low warp? Why are escorts able to fly in reverse faster than some ships moving forward. I didn't see forward facing impulse engine in the ship scimatics.

3) Why is the smallest ships flying with the heaviest weapons, yet flying like a fighter craft as if the are carring nothing? In real life, Bombers and spector guships carry the heaviest weapons of the sky and the are not that fast and manuverable as fighters. How many fighter jets you know carry 105 Howitzers or Nuke cruise missiles? In the sea, the Destroyers and Frigates don't carry the largest guns or biggest missiles. They are made for speed but they give up armor and weaponry to do so. They are made to protect the larger slow carriers that don't carry heavy guns or major missles. In this game, what is the purpose of the escort? Is it to destroy everything and get away with it? Is to be totally untouchable in right players hands?

4) Fighter that have hit point like ship? Why are the Advance versions of fighters that Klingons have now that are as tough as Birds of Prey? Its bad enough that fighters take your attention away from the player but do they have to be as tough as the player?

5) A Klingon teleporting spotainiously around in diffentent sides of an opponent? That doesn't sound like Human or Klingon technology. I don't think thats how transwayp is supposed to work. You have to time travel like a Q to instantaniously move all over tha map or around a person different times.

umm, you do realize a A6 intruder carrying 1 single ordinance tac nuclear bomb can destroy half a fleet?

this sounds more like a rant you like to start and then walk off from as you have discuss this in the past and always been shot down by many others. Since your being specific in some intances I am guessing you ran into a good PVP'r who cleaned your clock like last time and your mad about it?

Hey that is cool, rant on neighbor, but your all over the board a touch on this a bit much.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
05-23-2012, 03:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthRado View Post
I think you need to be a little more open minded to things in the game/scifi movie. It's a fictional universe after all. Now if i do have to defend this with canon:

1) We are talking about a fictional universe where there are many materials that don't exactly obey the laws of physics. May i remind you that even though the ship is made of Air-Tight materials, there are windows made out of force-fields which are penetrable by some materials,gasses, etc (The very reason why plasma inflicts direct hull damage even with shields up)

2) Source that torpedoes travel at low warp? As far as i know there is exactly one episode in TNG where an outfitted torpedo case was traveling at warp. In addition: Warp 1 is on theory the speed of light. So whatever low warp it is, we shouldn't be able to see/track the torpedo trajectory if what you stated is true.
To further disprove this point. There are many many engagements in Star Trek series and movies where ships were dodging torpedoes.

3) That's canon: Check USS Defiant. Also a fact is that ships don't take too much weapons space and they are so big mostly because of crew quarters, hangar bays, shuttle bays, etc...
A warship (escort if you prefer) doesn't have these extras, so that it can both have better weaponry and higher maneuverability.

4) Well firstly a BoP isn't a very tough ship if you can hit it. Also even if they have the same hull as a player, they don't have the abilities a player usually has, that literally triple (at least) his survivability.

5) It is year 2409 so basically you can't dismiss the technology. Even when transwarp didn't exist, there were stunts like the Picard Manouver for example. It's not very hard to believe that such ability can exist.
1) We know it is fiction but stick to physics of Star Trek. At least it can be your guide when you come up with abilities. The window are not made of forcefields, just that the forcefields come online when the widows are bashed out or there is a hull breach. Do you want the game to be Star Trek or a magical fairy tale with fairies, goblins and magic powers where nothing make since? Do you know about cosmic radiation? Its no a gas. Its radiation the comes from the stars, and it can penitrate today's spacecraft, but NASA is working on a ship design for interplantary space to mars that would generate a mamnetic field around the crew module to ward off radiation of anykind. If thats what they are working on today, future ships would be able to ward off even mor stuff to keep its crew safe. A gas would not enter any airtight vessel, let alone enter an advanced vessel that wards off stellar radiation. I think the Devs need to have a science director to at least keep the powers reasonable.

2)Read what I said thoroughly. Dodging torpedos is one thing, outrunning them in one direction is another. Go read the definition of Photon Torpedo. I read Memory Alpgha before I made this thread.

3)Are you blind? Have you not looked at a schematic or the Defiant? Obviously not. There is a small hangar for a type 8 shuttle, it has a cargo bay, and it does have crew quarters, maybe not apartment size, but they do have them. You don't think the crew sleep on the bridge and in the engine room., do you?

Notice, there is no forward facing impulse engines, so still the ship should not be able to reverse faster than a standard ship going forward. In fact, the escort is not just a vehicle of cannons, engine and a bridge, like we were lead to believe. Defiant Class is one of the smallest warship class, if it has quarters, hangar, cargo bay and more, what do you think the larger escort classes would have? The Defiant Class is one of the smallest warship class we have on Fed side and it was not the Federation's most powerful ship. They only tell you that in this game. Large ships has alot of room for big armaments not small ships.

4) I didn't say Bop. They have some advance fighters for the Kar'Fi class Carriers that are as tough as regularship, and I am hitting them. They are surviving my attack short of using my Lance. Show me fight that survives a hit from todays warships? The Vulcan point defense guns on the navy ships will tear a jet to shreds. I know this because I worked with men that operated the weapon stations in Iraq. We had them to take out indirect weapons such as motars and improvized rockets. Thats the ships, second smallest weapon. Why are these fighters surviving the main weapons for these starships in the game?

5) Teleportation of a ship is quite ridiculous at the least. Why bother being in battle when you can teleport to the enemy homeworld and invade? You wouldn't be able to stop an invation force. Only the Iconians had this technology and was feard all over the galaxy for this. Giving the Klingons this tech tips the balance of power, all the way to the Klingons. If this game was ment to just glorify Klingons and make all other factions look like fodder, then why use the name Star Trek Online? It might as well be Star Trek Klingons Online.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
05-23-2012, 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cusashorn
Answers to 1, 2, 4, and 5:

It's a video game. Stop trying to integrate gameplay mechanics with the story.

Answer to question 3: The USS Defiant was intentionally designed as a warship, specifically designed for hit and run tactics. It has the strongedt weapons because it was designed to have them. The Escort class wouldn't even exist if not for the Deep Space 9 series laying down this guideline. The reason it turns faster than other ships and can travel in reverse faster is because the ship is significantly smaller than normal ships. The laws of physics still apply when it comes to factoring how much energy is needed to move mass. Larger mass = slower ship.
Look at the Schematics, there is no foraward facing engines, meaning it would have to use thrusters to go backwards and just because something is small doesn't mean it can reverse faster than ships going forward. The Defiant couldn't outrun everything, just look at the show again. It couldn't outrun the Vor'cha cruiser on its tail, it had to use a tractor beam to deflect the aim of the Vor'cha's front disruptor beam.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
05-23-2012, 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by irondarren
now as far as i can remember torpedo's in star trek are not guided more of a projectile really, with perhaps the one main acception. In the last orignal star trek film, well the thing has got to have a tail pipe. and pop goes a cloaked bird of prey. Thats really the only mention of a guided tropedo i can remember in star trek ( i could have missed something) and if that is the case then its going to be quite easy to avoid an un guided projectile.

In reality not everything in star trek makes sense episodes often tend to contradict each other, as the game very loosly follows the star trek theme its bond to make even less sense.. but it is as it is a game, something to provide an hrs entertainment nothing more
I didn't say dodging, I said outrunning. Flying in one direction.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
05-23-2012, 04:13 PM
[quote=drunkenguyver]1) Hmm I know what you’re saying, that does seem a little strange, but then again thinking about it i would say . . that while you’re getting hit by the Plasma torpedos or a plasma cloud (Vent warp plasma) that it may not be the actual cloud killing your crew . . but perhaps console blow outs and eps conduits exploding inside the ship as you’re taking the damage thats killing them ??

QUOTE]

I'm not talking about the warp plasma because its mainly made to screw up your systems, engines, and kills very few crew. The new gas stuff that look green bile kill 100% of your crew at once. Thats the BOFF power I think is ridiculous.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 19
05-23-2012, 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexin_Cobra View Post
This is something the DEVs should pay attention to.


1) A gas that kills the crew? Really? Who thought of that one? They must not know "jack" about space. In space you are in an airtight ship, how could you die from a gas outside your ship?
"air-tight" doesn't mean "impervious". There are plenty of reasons and explanations for how this would work, ranging from phasing (which would allow molecules to pass through solid matter) to hull breaches. And as others have said, this is Sci-Fi. techno-babble is how things work here.

And, if it's killing your crew, chances are there's probably some radiation involved. Radiation passes through most materials (both in real life, and in Trek canon), so that would explain how crew is being killed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexin_Cobra View Post
2) Escorts outruning torpedos? How can a ship at impulse outrun a weapon moving at low warp? Why are escorts able to fly in reverse faster than some ships moving forward. I didn't see forward facing impulse engine in the ship scimatics.
Torpedos aren't necessarily flying at "low warp". If they were, you wouldn't see them with the naked eye, as they'd be moving faster than the speed of light. And since they're moving at sublight speeds, it's entirely possible for escorts to move faster than a torpedo (just as it's possible for a fighter jet to outrun a missile in some cases)

As for reverse speeds, technobabble applies, but suffice it to say that escorts are typically smaller ships, so their RCS thrusters move them more quickly than larger ships can move normally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexin_Cobra View Post
3) Why is the smallest ships flying with the heaviest weapons, yet flying like a fighter craft as if the are carring nothing? In real life, Bombers and spector guships carry the heaviest weapons of the sky and the are not that fast and manuverable as fighters. How many fighter jets you know carry 105 Howitzers or Nuke cruise missiles? In the sea, the Destroyers and Frigates don't carry the largest guns or biggest missiles. They are made for speed but they give up armor and weaponry to do so. They are made to protect the larger slow carriers that don't carry heavy guns or major missles. In this game, what is the purpose of the escort? Is it to destroy everything and get away with it? Is to be totally untouchable in right players hands?
This I have to agree with you on. I've posted a few suggestions myself, most of which include limiting the heavier weapons to full-size starships.

However, it is canon that escorts have heavy weapons (at least with dual/quad cannons), so there's not really any basis to argue against that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexin_Cobra View Post
4) Fighter that have hit point like ship? Why are the Advance versions of fighters that Klingons have now that are as tough as Birds of Prey? Its bad enough that fighters take your attention away from the player but do they have to be as tough as the player?
If you check the Advanced Fighter hitpoints, you should find that they're roughly equivalent to what a level 51 player would have in his own fighter. Since these are advanced fighters, it makes sense that they'd be fairly strong, though I could see making them slightly weaker.

With carrier pets, my complaint isn't with their hull strength, so much as the annoying abilities they use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexin_Cobra View Post
5) A Klingon teleporting spotainiously around in diffentent sides of an opponent? That doesn't sound like Human or Klingon technology. I don't think thats how transwayp is supposed to work. You have to time travel like a Q to instantaniously move all over tha map or around a person different times.
That sounds exactly like a Warp Jump, which is what Picard (and later Riker) used to good effect. In Trek terms, the ship basically goes to warp for a fraction of a millisecond, and swings around the other ship. Since it takes very precise calculations, the maneuver is very dangerous, and is typically used only rarely.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 20
05-23-2012, 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexin_Cobra View Post
Look at the Schematics, there is no foraward facing engines, meaning it would have to use thrusters to go backwards and just because something is small doesn't mean it can reverse faster than ships going forward. The Defiant couldn't outrun everything, just look at the show again. It couldn't outrun the Vor'cha cruiser on its tail, it had to use a tractor beam to deflect the aim of the Vor'cha's front disruptor beam.
OK, fair point on the reverse thrusters, but you're really making a mountain out of a molehill on that one. Nobody really honestly cares how they do it. Chalk that one up to gameplay and story segregation.

As for the Vor'Cha cruiser that caught up to the Defiant: Again, physics comes into play here. An object of smaller mass requires less energy to start moving. This means that the Defiant will be much faster to move around in space.

However, an object of larger mass can easily move faster than the smaller mass once enough energy is put behind it to get it and keep it moving.

Simply put, while the Defiant can take off faster, a stronger engine output on the cruiser will eventually allow it to travel faster.
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