Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
05-24-2012, 04:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexin_Cobra View Post
This is something the DEVs should pay attention to.


1) A gas that kills the crew? Really? Who thought of that one? They must not know "jack" about space. In space you are in an airtight ship, how could you die from a gas outside your ship?

2) Escorts outruning torpedos? How can a ship at impulse outrun a weapon moving at low warp? Why are escorts able to fly in reverse faster than some ships moving forward. I didn't see forward facing impulse engine in the ship scimatics.

3) Why is the smallest ships flying with the heaviest weapons, yet flying like a fighter craft as if the are carring nothing? In real life, Bombers and spector guships carry the heaviest weapons of the sky and the are not that fast and manuverable as fighters. How many fighter jets you know carry 105 Howitzers or Nuke cruise missiles? In the sea, the Destroyers and Frigates don't carry the largest guns or biggest missiles. They are made for speed but they give up armor and weaponry to do so. They are made to protect the larger slow carriers that don't carry heavy guns or major missles. In this game, what is the purpose of the escort? Is it to destroy everything and get away with it? Is to be totally untouchable in right players hands?

4) Fighter that have hit point like ship? Why are the Advance versions of fighters that Klingons have now that are as tough as Birds of Prey? Its bad enough that fighters take your attention away from the player but do they have to be as tough as the player?

5) A Klingon teleporting spotainiously around in diffentent sides of an opponent? That doesn't sound like Human or Klingon technology. I don't think thats how transwayp is supposed to work. You have to time travel like a Q to instantaniously move all over tha map or around a person different times.
1. Plasma Gas is doing damage to the hull, not the people inside (unless we get to 0% hull, then they're screwed )

2. TOS Episode "Balance of Terror" Enterprise (old Constitution style) outruns a Torpedo at full reverse impulse. Warp drives and impulse engines are field effect drives, not reaction drives (ignoring what we saw in the last movie, and staying strictly in the Roddenberry Universe). In other words, where the engine is placed in the ship does not affect which way the ship moves. What we are shown in the series is shown to us in how we perceive our universe.

3. Defiant was an overpowered Warship with little to no amenities that the big cruisers have. It's like taking a destroyer against a cruise liner, guess who my money is on?

4. & 5. I agree with what was stated in response before me.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
05-24-2012, 05:50 AM
1.) It's Warp Plasma or Radiation. There is even a canon example of a plasma fire indicating that it causes harmful radiation. And of course, radiation can get through shields and hull and can harm the crew. And it can also damage hull.

2.) I am not sure if it's ever fully explained on screen, so this may not be strictly canon, but soft canon provided by the technical writing staff of the shows: Torpedoes can maintain a warp field and fly at warp speeds. But that requires them to start at warp. To maintain the field, they need to use their own fuel.

3.) The Defiant may be best compared to a Galaxy Class Cruiser (maybe something smaller) reduced to its warp core, impulse engines and a weapons platform, and minimimal crew facilities. No holodecks, no large conference rooms, no labs, no extraneous sensor installations, no dolphin tanks or what-you-have.

4.) Fighters don't really have that much hit points. So it's a non-issue. The real issue is more how 4 Bird of Preys fit into a Vo'Quv or how 4 of those frigates fit into a Kar'Fi.

5.) The distance is obviously rather short, so it's hardly "Q"Level type of movement. It may be a Transwarp effect (which we've seen to be instantanous) or just regular warp speed for a ver ybrief amount of time (so it seems instantenous because at that distances, anything near the speed or light or beyond would seem so.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
05-24-2012, 07:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexin_Cobra View Post
This is something the DEVs should pay attention to.


1) A gas that kills the crew? Really? Who thought of that one? They must not know "jack" about space. In space you are in an airtight ship, how could you die from a gas outside your ship?

2) Escorts outruning torpedos? How can a ship at impulse outrun a weapon moving at low warp? Why are escorts able to fly in reverse faster than some ships moving forward. I didn't see forward facing impulse engine in the ship scimatics.

3) Why is the smallest ships flying with the heaviest weapons, yet flying like a fighter craft as if the are carring nothing? In real life, Bombers and spector guships carry the heaviest weapons of the sky and the are not that fast and manuverable as fighters. How many fighter jets you know carry 105 Howitzers or Nuke cruise missiles? In the sea, the Destroyers and Frigates don't carry the largest guns or biggest missiles. They are made for speed but they give up armor and weaponry to do so. They are made to protect the larger slow carriers that don't carry heavy guns or major missles. In this game, what is the purpose of the escort? Is it to destroy everything and get away with it? Is to be totally untouchable in right players hands?

4) Fighter that have hit point like ship? Why are the Advance versions of fighters that Klingons have now that are as tough as Birds of Prey? Its bad enough that fighters take your attention away from the player but do they have to be as tough as the player?

5) A Klingon teleporting spotainiously around in diffentent sides of an opponent? That doesn't sound like Human or Klingon technology. I don't think thats how transwayp is supposed to work. You have to time travel like a Q to instantaniously move all over tha map or around a person different times.
1. I'm sure this "gas" you are refering to is actually theta radiation. Certain kinds of radiation can penetrate the shields and hull and kill crew.

2. Torpedoes don't travel at warp speeds unless the ship firing them is traveling at warp speeds. Torpedoes have a warp sustainer engine that lets the projectile maintain the warp speed of the ship firing them. Otherwise they travel at sublight speeds, aka impulse.

3. Escorts are guns strapped to an engine. Nothing more. Some of the biggest heavy hitters are also some of the most maneuverable aircraft in the US Military. Now granted a bomb laden Strike Eagle probable won't out-turn a F-22, but it's still pretty turnable. A Strike Eagle certainly doesn't lumber.

4. QQ

5. I think the Klingons stole that idea from someone else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKnight1000
The console is not a massive advantage, the only console that was a massive advantage was Vent Theta Radiation when it was broken, and it's been fixed and the Feds can get it too. Not so much since it's in a lock box but it's possible. The Sub Space Jump is a short range jump to behind the target I don't see how it's so super powered as any good Cruiser is strong from all sides. Essentially put it's a variation on the Picard manuver which is a Canon Technique. I don't know how the KDF got their hands on the tech, but they also have the Subspace Snare on the Bortasqu Sci and I don't see you complaining about that.
I wouldn't think so. I was battling a BBQ that had the jump console in Ker'rat once, and he used the console's power on me. Unfortunately for him, when I rematerialized my Defiant's front end was pointing at him so I just buffed and fired. He was dead within 15 seconds. Now granted I don't know if the jump forces the target to reappear with a random part of the ship facing you, or it always makes the front end face you, but I thought that was a pretty funny moment. Ker'rat Zone chat certainly got a kick outta it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
05-24-2012, 12:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raudl View Post
to 3)
If you consider that Aircrafts actually carry most powerfull weapons right now, your argument falls appart.
submarines...in mass smaller than carriers carry nuclear weapons.

frigates or small cruisers have enough payload to level small towns, so do submarines or carrier based aircrafts.

Energy weapons just don't work the way chemically propelled projectiles worked. There is no need for a massive gun to fire energy based weapons. Same goes for rockets, a handheld launcher can take out tanks, bunkers, planes, etc...
The difference is, that for example the enterprise e has about 8 to 9 torpedo launchers and the defiant has 2.

But if there is only one target infront of you, you don't need 8 or 4 in your aft section. But during combat, when the ship is heavely dmged, the defiant may need to retreat, due to weapons failure etc. The larger cruiser can stay and fire from it's additionalweapons...compared to the game, escorts are more squishy cruisers can take a beating for a longer duration. i guess that was the design intend.

In star trek it was never really stated that torpedos travel warp. It is seen, that they fire torpedos while moving at warp, but they also fire phasers and disruptors at warp sometimes.

to 2)
I can only explain this that way: The torpedo or phaser beam travels inside the warp bubble as if it was normal space. thats why they need to be so close to fire at targets when traveling at warp. the weapon must not enter normal space, it travels from bubble A to bubble B, in "normal space" not subspace. But thats just an assumption.

to 1)
It's not a gas, it's plasma...4th condition of matter. solid, liquid, gas, plasma....very, very, very, hot
the other thing is radiation

to 4)
fighters (BOP) die pretty quick anyway, and have a long cooldown. I guess thats just an balancing issue, but i guess it would be pretty stupid to start some BOP only to watch them dying to a scatter volley before they do anything.

to 5)
the teleportation thing is something you need to live with in a scifi game, or fantasy game or a game in general. But i guess the show did show some occasions where exactly that happens, so it needs no further explanation.

PS:I guess Alexin_cobra will not be convinced that his assumptions are wrong...as usual
And it really is nothing the DEVs should pay any attention to, at the current state of the game.
and srsly: whats up with the ninja outfit?

sense is not since...only one makes sense here
1) If its plasma, how would it touch the hull if your shilds is up?

2) that fact that a player can outrun torpedos the entire battle is ridiculous. Whats the poin in having these weapons if they are too, slow to hit anybody?

3) SSBN and SSGN are larger than Destroyers and are slow. They are in the same class as missile cruisers. A carreir is not a Battleship, so why do you keep using it as an example? Battleships are obsolete right now because we don't have naval conflict as we did in the past. Your argument don't even make since.

If you think that equipment to generate powerful lasers or enery weapons, the go to Livermore University in California and see if you can fit any of that equipment in the bed of your truck. Look up worlds most powerful laser.

4)I'm not talking about BOPs

5)Ridiculous statement, seeing that its a game carrying the namesake of Star Trek. If these ablilities get out of hand the game is not longer credible to use Star Trek storylines. We should be trying to keep magic and fairies out of the game.

PS As usual you are a DA to think other people don't read and study things.. Your attention is like that of a monkey, looking at picturse rather than reading words. Seriously, go back to school and learn to count and learn the difference between since and sense.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
05-24-2012, 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
1.) It's Warp Plasma or Radiation. There is even a canon example of a plasma fire indicating that it causes harmful radiation. And of course, radiation can get through shields and hull and can harm the crew. And it can also damage hull.

2.) I am not sure if it's ever fully explained on screen, so this may not be strictly canon, but soft canon provided by the technical writing staff of the shows: Torpedoes can maintain a warp field and fly at warp speeds. But that requires them to start at warp. To maintain the field, they need to use their own fuel.

3.) The Defiant may be best compared to a Galaxy Class Cruiser (maybe something smaller) reduced to its warp core, impulse engines and a weapons platform, and minimimal crew facilities. No holodecks, no large conference rooms, no labs, no extraneous sensor installations, no dolphin tanks or what-you-have.

4.) Fighters don't really have that much hit points. So it's a non-issue. The real issue is more how 4 Bird of Preys fit into a Vo'Quv or how 4 of those frigates fit into a Kar'Fi.

5.) The distance is obviously rather short, so it's hardly "Q"Level type of movement. It may be a Transwarp effect (which we've seen to be instantanous) or just regular warp speed for a ver ybrief amount of time (so it seems instantenous because at that distances, anything near the speed or light or beyond would seem so.)
1) If its plasma, how would it get through the shield? If its radiation, the same devices that keep out cosmic rays would keep out the radiation, wouldn't it? You can't be a deep space starship without them. Its called a magnetic field which can't be disrupted by radiation. I think killing 100% of the crew is ridiculous, because that would be like destroying the whole ship with a gas or radiation. Injure crew is on thing but to kill them all, is overkill.

2)Read it from Memery Alpha. I don't people don't look things up anymore.

3) I think its stupid to have players outruning torpedos the entire battle. That what i'm seeing with alot escort players. The escorts in the game don't even fly like the Defiant, they fly way faster and reverse speed like a dragon flies. Its sill have a hangar, cargo bay, mess hall, quarters, and it doesn't have foward facing impulse engine to help it fly backwards faster than truster speed. In the game they fly faster than truster speed in reverse, outrunning ships chasing them going foward, thats the ridiculous part.

4)Those Frigates seem to be tougher than those birds of prey. and harder to hit them, meanwhile you can't even get a chance to fight the actual player.

5)Thats not what i saw when fighting one. It almost looked like a glitch. "Q" like.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
05-24-2012, 01:05 PM
Quote:
1) If its plasma, how would it touch the hull if your shilds is up?
because Shields defend against Matter and Energy NOT plasma
Quote:
2) that fact that a player can outrun torpedos the entire battle is ridiculous. Whats the poin in having these weapons if they are too, slow to hit anybody?
Fire them at oncoming targets

Quote:
3) SSBN and SSGN are larger than Destroyers and are slow. They are in the same class as missile cruisers. A carreir is not a Battleship, so why do you keep using it as an example? Battleships are obsolete right now because we don't have naval conflict as we did in the past. Your argument don't even make since.
Actually CARRIERS are obsolete right now Battle ships never will be

Quote:
If you think that equipment to generate powerful lasers or enery weapons, the go to Livermore University in California and see if you can fit any of that equipment in the bed of your truck. Look up worlds most powerful laser.
in 1967 a computer as powerful as my laptop would have been the size of an aircraft hanger
today it fits in my briefcase

Lasers today are toys
A phased energy weapon in Archers era is the size of a machine gun
By Kirks time it fits in the palm of your hand

Oh and the worlds most powerful laser is in Germany I believe

Quote:
4)I'm not talking about BOPs
Some of the others ARE

Quote:
5)Ridiculous statement, seeing that its a game carrying the namesake of Star Trek. If these ablilities get out of hand the game is not longer credible to use Star Trek storylines. We should be trying to keep magic and fairies out of the game.
Magic is already IN Trek (Catspaw , Squire of Gothos, Any episode with Q)
Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from science.


Quote:
PS As usual you are a DA to think other people don't read and study things.. Your attention is like that of a monkey, looking at picturse rather than reading words. Seriously, go back to school and learn to count and learn the difference between since and sense.
"pictures" glass houses , stones
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
05-24-2012, 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by siskofan1991
1. I'm sure this "gas" you are refering to is actually theta radiation. Certain kinds of radiation can penetrate the shields and hull and kill crew.

2. Torpedoes don't travel at warp speeds unless the ship firing them is traveling at warp speeds. Torpedoes have a warp sustainer engine that lets the projectile maintain the warp speed of the ship firing them. Otherwise they travel at sublight speeds, aka impulse.

3. Escorts are guns strapped to an engine. Nothing more. Some of the biggest heavy hitters are also some of the most maneuverable aircraft in the US Military. Now granted a bomb laden Strike Eagle probable won't out-turn a F-22, but it's still pretty turnable. A Strike Eagle certainly doesn't lumber.

4. QQ

5. I think the Klingons stole that idea from someone else.



I wouldn't think so. I was battling a BBQ that had the jump console in Ker'rat once, and he used the console's power on me. Unfortunately for him, when I rematerialized my Defiant's front end was pointing at him so I just buffed and fired. He was dead within 15 seconds. Now granted I don't know if the jump forces the target to reappear with a random part of the ship facing you, or it always makes the front end face you, but I thought that was a pretty funny moment. Ker'rat Zone chat certainly got a kick outta it.
3) it is not just a gun on engines, look at the schematics. Those jets are both fighters, one older than the other. Comparing B2 Bomber and an F22 is more like it. B2 is slow and not very manuverable. In fact, it's not even supersonic, but it carries the biggerst bombs and cruise missles of the saky.

5) What, the Iconians? Its too quick and Q like to not be ridiculous. It make your screen look like its lagging or glitching.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
05-24-2012, 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
because Shields defend against Matter and Energy NOT plasma

Fire them at oncoming targets



Actually CARRIERS are obsolete right now Battle ships never will be



in 1967 a computer as powerful as my laptop would have been the size of an aircraft hanger
today it fits in my briefcase

Lasers today are toys
A phased energy weapon in Archers era is the size of a machine gun
By Kirks time it fits in the palm of your hand

Oh and the worlds most powerful laser is in Germany I believe



Some of the others ARE



Magic is already IN Trek (Catspaw , Squire of Gothos, Any episode with Q)
Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from science.




"pictures" glass houses , stones
Huh? What? Plama is matter, duh.

You are way in left field with the carrier stuff.

The worlds most powerful laser was in a California, google it.

This game is about war between lower beings not Q's and none corporial lifeforms.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
05-24-2012, 01:23 PM
Quote:
Huh? What? Plama is matter, duh.
Not according to physics it isn't


Quote:
You are way in left field with the carrier stuff.
Oh really?
Watch and learn when the next little war kicks off


Quote:
The worlds most powerful laser was in a California, google it.
I would not trust google to find a take away
the worlds most powerful laser is "Disputed"
and Germany has the stronger claim

Quote:
This game is about war between lower beings not Q's and none corporial lifeforms.
Q is a "lower being"
A non solid lifeform is not "superior" it is merely less solid
this is why the Organians died out
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
05-24-2012, 04:00 PM
srsly, Plasma is matter, it's actually the 4th state of matter!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_(physics)

And aircraft carriers in modern warfare are behind submarines the pinnacle of global warfare...battleships are a relic of the past. since 70 years no more large guns are mounted on ships since rockets are much, much, much more versatile. maybe in the future satelites become more important than now, but since space is supposed to be weapons free, carriers (airplanes) and submarines are still on top.

But since they are very vulnerable to nuclear weapons and other anti ship weapons (submarines) they are in a way obsolete, because they are too vulnerable. But this argument is flawed because of the banning of nuclear weapons in warfare.
So both statements can be seen as valid, since both have merrits. They project power of a nation all over the world, but they are vulnerable in many ways too.

q's are omnipotent...that should explain actually everything. the word says it all...omnipotent.
organians didn' die out...or got extinct. they just vanished. (If i'm incorrect here, i need to see some proof)

Concerning the laser thing he may be somewhat right, since there is a fusion reactor that gets it's ignition heat from lasers...and as far i know about it, those are the most powerfull lasers concentrating it's beams on a Helium 3 grain to ignite the fusion. Those lasers may not be the biggest single one...but the heat they produce surely is one of the highest on the planet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Ignition_Facility this laser facility is in the US

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_M%C3%A9gajoule this one in france and it will be completed in 2012...to sum it up: this one has a higher energy output and consumption
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