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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
05-24-2012, 04:29 PM
Well, now I'm making a single-finger gesture, but nowhere near my nose.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
05-24-2012, 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HF_Mudd
Well, now I'm making a single-finger gesture, but nowhere near my nose.
No need to be a rude dude.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
05-24-2012, 04:34 PM
The OP Acctually brings a point, thank you for sharing your ideas.

As far as I am concerned, there is an easy fix, one I wish would get serious attention to.

We can buy "Skins" , if I may use that as a way to Retrofit the looks of any ship. IMHO since ships can no longer be purchased with EC, but instead dilithium, I belive re-skin-ing a ship is more appropiate of a request. As it is , we can buy from Quarks bar a version of temporary reskining. I would much rather pay a Ship Yard Quartermaster dilithium to re-outfit my ship than buy any more. My hangar is maxed out @ 16 on all my toons. Thanks for reading.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
05-24-2012, 04:53 PM
I actually agree too, the OP has a really good idea here.

Why not make T5 ships that have a look inspired by classic ships, but are clearly 25th century in the fine details? A T5 Akira with a classic-inspired NX look would make everyone (except the purists, I guess...) happy. I had a half-formed idea in my head that a T5 Excalibur would make a reasonable substitute for a Connie (granted, it leans a lot more toward Movie-era over TOS, but arguably that makes the idea even more viable.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
05-24-2012, 06:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi-3Orionis
I actually agree too, the OP has a really good idea here.

Why not make T5 ships that have a look inspired by classic ships, but are clearly 25th century in the fine details? A T5 Akira with a classic-inspired NX look would make everyone (except the purists, I guess...) happy. I had a half-formed idea in my head that a T5 Excalibur would make a reasonable substitute for a Connie (granted, it leans a lot more toward Movie-era over TOS, but arguably that makes the idea even more viable.)
Admittedly that's something I don't mind seeing.

There is already some Cryptic support for this in the Tier 2 cruisers - the Excalibur class model does look like a 25th Century Constitution class. Now it won't be competitive with the sheer size and power of an Odyssey but I can still see such 'light' cruiser types patrolling interstellar space within the Federation interior closer to home.

In this instance the ship tier system does somewhat make sense and gives room for ship customization to match player preferences.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
05-24-2012, 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forgotten-Nemesis View Post
Ahhh. I see the problem now. The problem is that you think a 300 yearold ship design should be as good as a modern one. What you need to understand is that this is an unreasonable thing to want, because it destroys believability. A NX style ship that's as tough as Bortasqu battleships in pvp and borg cubes in STFs is a stupid thing to put into the game. You should give up your desires to have stupid things in game that would exist purely to satisfy you, which would otherwise ruin the game.
Oh, how to take this...

1. Being quick/hazy with the math, but only the NX-Akira is a "300" year old design. 60's connie is right around 150-ish, and Excelsior is maybe 120. Oh, and as others have mentioned in this very thread, the D'Kyr (VSS) is also a 300+ year old design...

2. If a ~120 and a 300+ year old design already have been cleared for tier 5, aka end-game play, then it should be "theoretically" possible to add 2 more (~150 and 300+ years old).

3. The "modernization" project could start with ~30-50 year old designs, not multiple century old ones. To wit: TNG-Akira, with the nacelles flipped from an "over the plane of the saucer" design to an "under the plane of the saucer" one. Swap out TNG-era "squished" parts with more rounded/puffier parts. That right there is 90% of the NX-Akira, measurement tweaks and paintjob is the last 10%. Use the Ambassador class (Ent-C) from TNG, replace pylons with straighter/stiffer ones that raise the pylons above the plane of the saucer, "puff out" the squished parts, tweak, paint, and you can have either 60's Connie or 70's Connie-refit, depending on exactly how you puff out the parts...

4. Cryptic already is using the "excuse" (ahem, storyline explanation) that the Tier 1 Connie & NX, Tier 2 Connie-Refit, and Tier-3 Excelsior are actually "new build" starships based "purely" on 25th century technologies (alloys, parts, systems, etc.) but using "classic" hull builds. And they've already "retrofitted" the Excelsior into a Tier 5 Cruiser. If they can do this in the 25th century already, then it shouldn't be that much more of a stretch to "retrofit" a tier 2 cruiser into a tier 5 science vessel, and to "design" a fully functional tier 5 escort based on a hull plan that got remade within the past 30 years...

With all this in mind, if you're gonna come back and tell me that I should settle for the Ambassador and Akira as "my" Tier-5 ships, then I expect an answer to the following question: Why should I be punished with what I consider "ugly" squished TNG designs instead of the "classic" looks that I grew up with, just because it seems your sense of aesthetics insist that an STF group needs to have ships with only TNG looks?

Oh, and point 5: While a 60's Hemi sure isn't gonna beat a Ferarri or Lamborghini down the Autobahn, the Hemi will still make a proud showing and definitely not "clog up" the road. That, and all the auto-aficionados most likely will be staring at the Hemi on the road while they ignore "yet another modern roadster" zipping by them...

Edit: 6: I don't want NX-Akira to be as "tough" as Bortasqu or Oddessy. I want NX-Akira to be as "tough" as a Defiant-Retrofit. I don't want a Tier 5 Connie-Retro matching a Bortasqu, Oddy, or even Excelsior slot-for-slot, I want it to match up to an Intrepid-Retro or at least the D'Kyr. These ships aren't gonna sell because they're "OP" or "P2W", they'll sell because they're at least "viable" for end-game and have the "classic looks"... Let the Oddessy and Bortasqu stay the closest thing to P2W that Cryptic plans to release...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
05-26-2012, 08:42 AM
The thing I always thought was that the Connie was an old reliable, heavily upgraded ship still in service. Which made me think the NX all the more bizarre, because it's always been an NX replica. It a bit like the US replacing the F22's with P51 Replicas.

As for the Obereth, it's was still around in TNG. And I'd argue that starships could have a life span of active service for maybe 200 to 300 years. As long as the super structure was fine and the systems could be fixed they could keep it running, just not as a front line ship. Obereth's in TNG seemed to be transport ships more than science vessels.

As for the Vulcan ship being a 300 year old design, I think they simply never changed the shape, there was no logical reason to do so. The internals and maybe even the materials it was made from changed with progress but the ships are built to the same shape. Something I suspect many races do and that Humanity may be unique in the constant changes in Star Treks Universe. That and they just kept going back to the B'Rel BoP everytime they needed Klingon ships.

Where as in Human culture we tweak the looks of things constantly, look at any line of cars that started like thirty years ago. The Mustang for example has been tweaked every year or so. The Porsche 911 is another great one. That's why the ships all look different.

As for the Akira, the more I think about it, the more I remember it being along side Sovereigns and Galaxies and think that it should be made a Tier 5 ship, but and I'm probably going to catch a lot of heat for this, it should not be an Escort. I never saw the things as an Escort type Role I thought of them more like Cruisers and some Designations of the Akira class list it as a Heavy Cruiser.

As for how do we design yet another Fed Cruiser? Essentially put I see it as having the exact same stats as the KDF Vor'Cha. I'm sure many would like to give it the Excelsior BOFF layout too. But yeah that's my concept, a faster Cruiser that can Mount DHC's. The KDF would need to be given the Excelsior BOFF layout on a Cruiser too, because that's what they really want next in a ship.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
05-26-2012, 09:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKnight1000
As for the Akira, the more I think about it, the more I remember it being along side Sovereigns and Galaxies and think that it should be made a Tier 5 ship, but and I'm probably going to catch a lot of heat for this, it should not be an Escort. I never saw the things as an Escort type Role I thought of them more like Cruisers and some Designations of the Akira class list it as a Heavy Cruiser.
There's a bit of gameplay/story segregation going here, I think. It's a "heavy cruiser," but the size is not of a T5 cruiser, such as the Sovereign or Odyssey classes. It would fit as a companion to the Fleet Escort, since IIRC the ships are of similar size.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKnight1000
As for how do we design yet another Fed Cruiser? Essentially put I see it as having the exact same stats as the KDF Vor'Cha. I'm sure many would like to give it the Excelsior BOFF layout too. But yeah that's my concept, a faster Cruiser that can Mount DHC's. The KDF would need to be given the Excelsior BOFF layout on a Cruiser too, because that's what they really want next in a ship.
Honestly, every time I see another TNG-era ship become a viable Federation tactical cruiser choice that outpaces the Sovereign, I groan. The statistical balance for the ships is way out of whack.

I'd suggest giving it the Engineering counterpart to the MVAE's Boff layout, with roughly the JH Attack Ship's hull and shields but a more reasonable turn rate.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
05-26-2012, 09:23 AM
This has been asked fir time and again. As much as I would pay real money for this you are probably never going to see it. At least not for the near future.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
05-26-2012, 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayvenwing View Post
This has been asked fir time and again. As much as I would pay real money for this you are probably never going to see it. At least not for the near future.
The T5 Akira, though, is in the future in some form.

Either as a C-Store +1 variant, or through the fleet starbase ship modification functionality that has been rumored.
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