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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
05-30-2012, 03:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabba2087
Alendiak, what do you think of my last suggestion? 2 Quantums and 2 cannons up front, with 1 beam, 1 quantum, and 2 turrets in the rear. With two phaser relays and one quantum. Ill switch out forfields and grab another field gen.
I recommend 3 or 4 turrets on the rear, it's not going to help to mix Beams and Cannons. Since your going to be facing the opponent most of the time you could run a Tricobalt in the back for a really powerful rear kick. If you use Eject Warp Plasma, and have the Matter Anti-Matter DOFF you'll stall anything in the plasma and you can use a Tricobalt Mine for very good damage.

I run 2 Photons, 2 DHCs, Fore and 3 Turrets and a Trico Mine aft on a Vor'Cha Retrofit, the Warp Plasma trap works well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabba2087
How do i search the exhange for a boff with the desired skill?
Painfully, you can't search for specific skills on the Exchange. You have to look over all the Boffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabba2087
What stats on weapons are generally more desired? acc, crith? etc
I think everyone agrees [Acc] is the number one stat. Extra Accuracy converts to Crit H and Crit D. [Dmg] is probably my second choice and most peoples third. [Acc]x2 and X is probably the best without going super expensive. [Acc]x3 will be super expensive.

Most people
[Acc] > [CritH] > [Dmg] > [CrtD]

Me
[Acc] > [Dmg] > [CrtD] > [CritH]
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
05-30-2012, 05:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabba2087
Well, I figured it would be an upgraded excelsior

I figured I'd be facing my enemy 60% of the time, most of the time I'm turning in circles,
Which one is it?

It can't be both.

60% of the time is "most of the time", so are you facing your target most of the time or are you turning in circles most of the time?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabba2087
distributing damage across my sheilds and alternating my torpedo tubes, front, rear and repeat.
If you are running with Projectile Weapon DOFFs, then you should never need your rear torpedos and would be much better off always keeping the fore torpedos on target.


If that's the case, and you are in fact 'facing your target most of the time', then you should run forward facing weapons such as

FORE: Single Cannon x2, Quantum Torps x2
AFT: Turrets x4



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabba2087
As you can see my build reflects torpedo damage, with the consoles, my skills, boff powers and doffs. I do have full points in threat control.
At least you have threat control, thatís good.

As far as damage, what you see and what I see are two very different things.
I see a ship that isnít very good at forward facing attacks and isnít very good at broadsiding.

You canít have it all in this game, you need to choose which you want to do Ė Face your targets or keep them in your broadside arc.
Itís one or the other, so pick one and then be good at it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabba2087
The one thing that bothers me too is the weak broadside. I guess I should replace the DBB with a beam array? The whole reason i took my excelsior over my assault cruiser was the better turn rate for torps, and HY3. I have an escort for the faster stuff. I was also going to build a seperate beam boat idea.
Yes but why does that mean Torps both fore and aft to you?

Running Torps aft means you have weapons fore and aft that do not complement each other.

There is a difference between thinking your ship is ďgood at damageĒ and actually knowing it, so hunt around for one of the log parsers and parse your combat logs Ė youíll probably be very surprised at how much or how little damage you are doing relative to the other ships on your teams.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabba2087
I prefer Spread over BFAW because the latter targets everything around you, spread is just in the arc you are firing in. I prefer not to draw too much aggro, or rather, i find I have more control of my targets with spread.

Targeting everything around you is the exact reason you should have FAW on a cruiser. Aside from this power being able to pull double duty as a ST and AoE damage boost, it is a great way to get aggro.

Aggro control is what you are there for in a Cruiser on teams.

If you do not want aggro, you should be in a different ship, because Cruisers that avoid threat and avoid aggro while being a middling damage dealer really do not help their teams at all.

You took threat control, so obviously you want some aggro but you do understand that NPC ships you do not hit with your attacks will not be affected by your threat control?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
05-30-2012, 10:16 AM
When i say I dont want aggro, I dont want EVERYTHING on me. My ship can tank, but against a number of spheres, it wont last long, and i have to bug out to repair sheilds. I simply like having more control over what I hit is all. If i want to hit everything, i pull out a bit, and fire a spread.

Right now, my setup is as i said, 2 cannons in front, with 2 quantums, and 2 turrets, 1 beam, and 1 quantum in the rear. And im notice a lot more damage on all sides, small increase to the rear arc.

Why isnt it good to mix beams and cannons? If so, ill switch out the beam for the turret. The beam is there for a little more kick for broadsides and the rear facing arcs. I know they do more damage than turrets, and even more so at range. Broadsides are nice now, 2 cannons, 2 turret and 1 beam.

The reason i still have a torpedo in the rear is because when I'm broadsiding, i dont always want to turn into my target, but i may want to fire another spead. Im hesitant about using tircobalt simply because i like to keep the same weapon types.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
05-30-2012, 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabba2087
When i say I dont want aggro, I dont want EVERYTHING on me. My ship can tank, but against a number of spheres, it wont last long, and i have to bug out to repair sheilds. I simply like having more control over what I hit is all. If i want to hit everything, i pull out a bit, and fire a spread.
Well, fair enough I suppose.

Keep in mind though, the Escort floating next to you who loaded up with multiple copies of CSV & Torp Spread to help cut borg down faster, or the Sci ship who just dropped a Grav well to clump 9and **** off) your enemies up into a pretty kill-me-ball have even less ability to tank those spheres than you do.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabba2087
Why isnt it good to mix beams and cannons?
Because beam skills only help beams, and cannon skills only help cannons/turrets.

So if you have BFAW you help all of your beams, if you have CSV you help all of your cannons/turrets.

You want to minimize the number of weapons you're very, very few tac skills do not boost. Yes, that even means your Excelsior with 3 tac powers (a tiny number, compared to an Escort).



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabba2087
If so, ill switch out the beam for the turret. The beam is there for a little more kick for broadsides and the rear facing arcs. I know they do more damage than turrets, and even more so at range. Broadsides are nice now, 2 cannons, 2 turret and 1 beam.
If you have 3 turrets rear and 1 beam, and you are broadsiding with that and use CSV or CRF, I think you will either come out even or surpass by using 4x turrets as all 4 aft weapons now benefit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabba2087
The reason i still have a torpedo in the rear is because when I'm broadsiding, i dont always want to turn into my target, but i may want to fire another spead. Im hesitant about using tircobalt simply because i like to keep the same weapon types.

As I mentioned up-thread.

Pick one: Broadsiding OR Forward Facing.

If you're broadsiding constantly and want to keep torps then put 1 Torp fore and 1 Torp aft, and the rest should be 6 beam arrays. Now you can broadside and bring torps on target when the opportunity is there.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
05-30-2012, 01:13 PM
Cant get away with a strong front and broadside huh? I would still like to keep one rear launcher, even if it means switching the beam for another turret. Like i said, sometimes i like turning away from an opponent and firing a salvo.

Considering i run all turrets, and no beams and 3 launcher.. what would you reccomend my tac boffs have?

Right now it's tac team, spread 2 and hy3. Think it's better to say.. switch out spread for CVF? I do love spead though when enemies are clumped, or is CSV more effective?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
05-30-2012, 06:46 PM
Tac Team 1 > Torp Spread 2 > Cannon Scatter Volley 2

Would be my preferred option.

Running Cannons, your never going to get equal firepower from all sides, it's just not possible. And with your build at least it's only the back 180 that is weak so you'll have equal DPS forward and side on.

Running six Beam Arrays your still going to have a hole in the damage arc, it'll be the front and rear torpedo arcs.

Every possible weapons combination (except all turrets, and would argue that's a 360 degree weak spot) has a weak spot in the Arc, the trick is to fly the ship so that weak spot doesn't matter.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
05-30-2012, 08:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabba2087
Cant get away with a strong front and broadside huh?
Nope.

The weapons/arc are specifically designed that way. You need to pick one of the two, personally even on a cruiser with the Excel's turn rate I would still go beam arrays (minimum 6).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabba2087
I would still like to keep one rear launcher, even if it means switching the beam for another turret. Like i said, sometimes i like turning away from an opponent and firing a salvo.
I wouldnt recommend this in the Single Cannon/Turret build, for the beam build you can get away with it.

With cannons/turrets, every time you take your forward arc off target you will be losing DPS - and most likely losing more than the rear torpedo will add.

On top of this, rear torpedos will lower your front arc damage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabba2087
Considering i run all turrets, and no beams and 3 launcher.. what would you reccomend my tac boffs have?

Right now it's tac team, spread 2 and hy3. Think it's better to say.. switch out spread for CVF? I do love spead though when enemies are clumped, or is CSV more effective?
What DK said.

TT 1 > TS 2 > CSV 2
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
05-30-2012, 10:14 PM
Hmmmm alright then. I really don't see the point then, Classes are just skins then? I can run the same 6 beam set up in my soverign class, and the same in a galaxy. At least those might be better for tanking. I also don't want to go with what everyone else is going with either. Ill keep messing around with it i guess. I picked the excelsior for the higher turning rate but.. :\. I'd hate to run her like an escort too, because i have one of those already, i just wanted a little versatility.

I am considering pulling the quantum from the rear for another turret, or maybe i could go with a tricobalt? I dunno... >.> I figure my front and sides are at the enemy the most so thats what i want to build up, if they're at my stern for an extended period, im probably trying to get away.

I also dont want to do the traditional beam boat, i was going to do that with my soverirn or a science ship.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
05-30-2012, 10:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alendiak
Get rid of the quantums and replace them with beam arrays. Torps on anything other then a tact escort are just a waste of weapon slots, due to cruisers not having the firepower to keep a shield down for long. Now if you were working with an experienced team with high damage dealers, I'd say keep them. Otherwise there's little chance of them striking a hull.

If you're really stuck on using torps, I'd suggest reducing it to one fore and one aft.
According to one of the developers on a recent episode of STOked (forget which one), having more than 4-6 beam arrays drops damage output dramatically due to power drain.

As such, it's probably a good idea to have one torp fore, and one torp aft, or to consider another weapon that isn't an array (e.g. DBB).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
05-31-2012, 06:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabba2087
Hmmmm alright then. I really don't see the point then, Classes are just skins then?
Do you mean ship classes or ships within a class?

Ships within a class will see some, generally small, variations in between the ships to add some different options.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabba2087
I can run the same 6 beam set up in my soverign class, and the same in a galaxy. At least those might be better for tanking. I also don't want to go with what everyone else is going with either. Ill keep messing around with it i guess. I picked the excelsior for the higher turning rate but.. :\. I'd hate to run her like an escort too, because i have one of those already, i just wanted a little versatility.
I'm not sure what it is that you want then.

You don't want to run it as a standard beam-cruiser, and you don't want to run it as a forward facing ship (escort-like, although it's really not close to being an Escort and vice versa).




Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_1999
According to one of the developers on a recent episode of STOked (forget which one), having more than 4-6 beam arrays drops damage output dramatically due to power drain.

As such, it's probably a good idea to have one torp fore, and one torp aft, or to consider another weapon that isn't an array (e.g. DBB).
Regardless of what the developers say, the problem still exists that Cruisers lack tactical slots and turning ability to make for effective, regular torpedo use on targets.
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