Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
06-05-2012, 12:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arbitre
I would argue that no competitive pvp player (or very few) in a cat carrier would run a tractor beam on a boff. Or anything that really needs you to point at your target so that argument is basically mute. Danubes are about where they need to be right now. You don't see them as the only pet people use anymore. Before it was 8x danubes all day, now you see 4+ another pet usually, which is what they should be in a balanced state.
Firing a tractor beam is like eating a box of chocolates...

...both can, and will, come flying out of your *** at nearly relativistic velocity.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
06-05-2012, 12:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arbitre
At max insulators, I still get all power levels set to to about 30 from siphons. Coupled with the speed at which they can be re-launched makes them completely OP. It's practically impossible to clear the spam unless you're running multiple FAW's. Basically there are so many and they spawn at such a high rate and they are such high priority targets that even WITH MAX INSULATORS it's not feasible to focus on the carrier.

I can't believe this hasn't been addressed yet.

Honestly, I barely queue FvK anymore because of those alone. I have no complaints really about any other klingon builds.



I would argue that no competitive pvp player (or very few) in a cat carrier would run a tractor beam on a boff. Or anything that really needs you to point at your target so that argument is basically mute. Danubes are about where they need to be right now. You don't see them as the only pet people use anymore. Before it was 8x danubes all day, now you see 4+ another pet usually, which is what they should be in a balanced state.
My point wasn't that the siphon balancing pass was a good one, just that it happened. Just like the danube pass happened, but isn't very effective either. I'm also a bit puzzled why by design player counter skills like power insulators are more effective vs player boff abilities than NPC abilities.

Pets that spam debuffs like phaser procs, cronts, and tbs in mass aren't balanced. Just like adv orion intercepters and adv frigs aren't balance. They have cront debuffs, spam weapon/engine power reduction/ace beam and the adv frig also has HY trics. It's like they nerfed the crap out of sci boff abilities and gave them in spirit to carriers via pets, but with the ability to apply them more often and to more targets.

Fyi, you don't need to "point at your target" to use tbs. You just have to be in the tb range.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
06-05-2012, 02:24 AM
I don't think that any of these two are "overpowered". They are just useful for specific circumstances, but that is true for any weapon.

For example, the Danubes are little threat to anything but escorts and raiders. And the energy siphon drones can be easily countered by, for example, EWP.

To say that any of these is "overpowered" is just like stating "escorts are overpowered", because they are the bst DPS machines.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
06-05-2012, 08:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corsair114 View Post
Firing a tractor beam is like eating a box of chocolates...

...both can, and will, come flying out of your *** at nearly relativistic velocity.
You're right I had a brain fart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo
I don't think that any of these two are "overpowered". They are just useful for specific circumstances, but that is true for any weapon.

For example, the Danubes are little threat to anything but escorts and raiders. And the energy siphon drones can be easily countered by, for example, EWP.

To say that any of these is "overpowered" is just like stating "escorts are overpowered", because they are the bst DPS machines.
I'm calling them OP because there are too many to clear, they are too great a threat to ignore, and cause too much of a power swing.

My opinion is that they need balancing. It's just that. My opinion. It doesn't "feel" right.

I suggest reducing the number of these launched per click, increasing the effect and hull power of each (so as to not reduce optimal conditions), and increasing the cooldown on launching them so that losing them is a bigger deal. Right now, it's too easy to replace them all nearly instantaneously.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
06-05-2012, 08:34 AM
Ya making them fire sequentially is a buff 100%... another example of Cryptic having NO idea what the hell they are doing. lol

Anyone that thinks otherwise also has no idea what they are doing.

However I don't much care really... they have never really bothered me outside of 4 carriers worth of them... Target the real issue "carrier" and remove all the spam in one good clean burst.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
06-05-2012, 08:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arbitre
Y[...]
I suggest reducing the number of these launched per click, increasing the effect and hull power of each (so as to not reduce optimal conditions), and increasing the cooldown on launching them so that losing them is a bigger deal. Right now, it's too easy to replace them all nearly instantaneously.
Okay, I can see that making sense, but that would make them on par with the Vo'Quv's BoPs.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
06-05-2012, 09:09 AM
I feel like the holds from the Danubes are significantly worse than the Klink's BoP pet, and they are more dangerous versus something other than an Escort (which is more likely to run multiple movement buffs). Disables, especially the Siphon pets, or unclearable chroniton procs are out of control.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
06-05-2012, 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
Ya making them fire sequentially is a buff 100%... another example of Cryptic having NO idea what the hell they are doing. lol

I think the problem before was having more than 3 tractors made it so that APO/PH would no longer render you immune. At least it is counterable now as the only source of the hold. If other players are also tractoring you that is different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo
Okay, I can see that making sense, but that would make them on par with the Vo'Quv's BoPs.
Yea, or delta's even. They launch 2 at a time and are a little tougher. I don't think they are bop tough, though I could be mistaken.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
06-05-2012, 04:39 PM
I did some PVP yesterday and there were two carriers on the opposing team. They were pretty close together so I hit an aux battery and did a grav well in the middle of them. All the craft they had just launched died instantly.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
06-05-2012, 11:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeusima View Post
I did some PVP yesterday and there were two carriers on the opposing team. They were pretty close together so I hit an aux battery and did a grav well in the middle of them. All the craft they had just launched died instantly.
One green flight deck doff reduces the launch rate of the pets by 10%. The base rate for ad frig KDF side is approx 50 sec. The rate for fighters is approx 24 sec. So a player launches an ad frig and cooldown reduced to 45 sec for the ad frig and approx 22 sec for fighters. Player launches fighters and cooldown reduced to 20 sec while advanced reduced to 40 sec.

A player used gw gets lucky and all the pets are in it's range and die. Gw goes on cooldown.

20 sec later player launches fighters advanced reduced to 15 sec fighters at 22 sec. 15 sec later ad launch, and fighters reduce to 5 sec. ad @ 45 sec. Then fighters launched ad @ 35 sec. Gw still on cooldown and I haven't factored aux levels in and only talking about 1 green doff.

In otherwords you won't be able to keep up even if under ideal situations you catch the carrier pilot launching his/her pets w/GW. I wouldn't count a players mistakes/foolishness of having carriers fly w/in a single GW's event horizen as a counter either.

Fyi, ad frigs KDF side have over 30k hp hulls. For both my tac & sci captains it's more then their BoPs Hull hps. I don't see a single GW killing those w/o further factors coming into play.
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