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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
06-02-2012, 01:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by danqueller
"Dateline: Sol System, Spacedock departure lane 715A

"With an estimated price tag equivilant to two of the new Odyssey-class flagships, the fight to convince the Federation Council to continue funding the project will no doubt be a difficult one. A leaked Corps of Engineers holodeck simulation showing an Odyssey-class obliterating the entire compliment of fighters with phasers during an evaluation program has certainly not helped the case of those who dream of 'the ultimate warship', even as the class's proponents vow to see their ship into commission 'no matter what those fools think!'.

"For the Federation News Network, this is Blix'xir Norgal. Back to you, Steve!"
And an actual cost of 20 Odyssey class starships...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
06-02-2012, 03:38 AM
This ship sounds like what a 4-year old with no sense of game balance would design. I mean, talk about heroics? It's basically a cruiser with escort firepower that's also loaded with hangars.

Sounds lame.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
06-02-2012, 05:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalavier View Post
Lol. Funny enough I recently imagined how easily I could disable that ship with a group of Jem'hadar attack ships.

The ship is an accident waiting to happen. That many systems for that many purposes?

So many science labs, holodecks, tactical systems, all from one power source? Now if it said you know... having two warp cores + extra power generators and several dedicated computer cores for the different areas (Hangers, labs, tac systems)... maybe.
"Th' more they o'erthink th' plumbing, th' easier it is t' stop up th' drain."

In actuallity, this ship would -need- two warp core to feed the two different warp drive systems they installed on it (note the Galaxy-class nacelles -and- the Sovereign-class nacelles). That would mean additional equipment needed to manage balancing two different warp fields and having to intermix two sources of matter/antimatter power into a single grid. That would require even more equipment to prevent overloads, brownouts, surges, and the no doubt unique problem of, when the Captain orders the Engineer to jettison the warp core with only seconds before the ship explodes, he gets a reply of 'Which one??".

This ship is an example of a fanboy trying to build a dream ship instead of a real attempt to make something workable. Beyond the question of if everything claimed by the author of the ship is even possible in the Star Trek Universe (technically), there is the question of what Starfleet would do with the ship if it ever got built. Most likely, it would be far too expensive a ship to operate on normal missions (which it isn't equipped to do anyway, being entirely a military ship), and too much a target to send out without a large number of escort ships if you are facing the type of mission it is claimed to be intended for (military/combat situation). If you are going to send out a fleet anyway, the entire point of the ship ('One Ship to Rule Them All and Do The Job of Them All') is lost, as you will have the capabilities of the one ship in the fleet as a whole.

Shipbuilding is always about balance, and when you add something, you have to sacrifice something else. This is what the Soviet Navy discovered with their own hybrid ships. Their Kiev-class hybrid carriers had only half the firepower of a comparable cruiser due to the need for space to store the consumables and fighters required of a carrier, and only a fraction of the fighters a true carrier would have had due to the space needed for the heavy weapons aboard. Nothing comes free....even the replicators used in Star Trek cannot get the atoms needed to build what they replicate from nothingness...they need equal mass to produce equal mass (or energy, in which case you need massive amounts of energy storage). I can't help but think this 'Invincible' class would ultimately be either overloaded with systems and have such a huge rate of breakdowns that it would almost never be able to leave port (similar to the case with French Surcouf-class submarine in WWII), or be too weak in every area it tries to dominate to actually be effective in any of them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
06-02-2012, 09:13 AM
.....What....the....

I think I'm gonna be sick.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
06-02-2012, 09:49 AM
This ship is funny enough, it's designed to be able to be super awesome and do everything itself... Yet in it's 'permanent escort group' you have combat focused craft, and science ships....

And "Quantom slipspace drive that can only be used once every two weeks."

Well, unless the rest of the fleet has those equipped, they cannot travel with. And it's a bad design flaw (even if it was placed to go "Look, it's not uber in everything!" Cause let's say they did that to go to delta quadrant.

Now they have to spend two weeks exploring/wandering/sitting there. Imagine if one of these ran into a tac fusion cube from Armada 2? (That's 8 tactical cubes merged into a single, massive cubes with all the firepower of the eight.)

Edit: completely agree. while I completely suck at guessing sizes/distances... this ship sounds like it's too packed to the gills with systems (labs, etc). All which require power. And as somebody said. Just imagine a torpedo hitting that mine hanger (Hanger implies very large size to me. Aka, lots of mines. massive boom)...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
06-02-2012, 10:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalavier View Post
This ship is funny enough, it's designed to be able to be super awesome and do everything itself... Yet in it's 'permanent escort group' you have combat focused craft, and science ships....

And "Quantom slipspace drive that can only be used once every two weeks."

Well, unless the rest of the fleet has those equipped, they cannot travel with. And it's a bad design flaw (even if it was placed to go "Look, it's not uber in everything!" Cause let's say they did that to go to delta quadrant.

Now they have to spend two weeks exploring/wandering/sitting there. Imagine if one of these ran into a tac fusion cube from Armada 2? (That's 8 tactical cubes merged into a single, massive cubes with all the firepower of the eight.)
To be fair, if it was my ungodly design, I'd answer that the 'quantom slipspace drive' forms a bubble around the entire fleet.

I haven't looked, but I am curious now how it compares in displacement to the Scimitar (which was another silly uber vessel and canon!).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
06-02-2012, 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmera
BUt is it a Super-Cali-Fragilistic-Akira-Sova-Xelsi-Pid-Nought?
No, it's too ugly. Leave Mary Poppins out of this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjc_foxtrot View Post
Kinda looks like a Sovereign tried to eat an Akira.
I'm trying to forget how phallic that thing looks. You're not helping.....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
06-02-2012, 10:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by centersolace
No, it's too ugly. Leave Mary Poppins out of this.
But its designer intended for it to be practically perfect in every way...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
06-02-2012, 11:50 AM
The ship fails hard for trying to be a heavy focused science vessel, a large fleet carrier, and a super armed and armored dreadnaught, all at the same time.

Not to mention the BS that it's structural field is advanced enough to let it fly like a steamrunner, a much smaller and more nimble ship.

As I've probably said, too many pros, no cons listed.

As such, us in this topic auto-create the cons that match the pros .
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
06-02-2012, 01:35 PM
My god... that ship is awful. Its the worst thing I've ever seen in the world.

Also, just going to throw this out there, the entire concept of "carriers" in Star Trek is nonsense. Its just trying to apply earth-bound naval strategy to space, where it is completely pointless. The weapons in Star Trek are far too powerful, and far too fast, for carriers to have a purpose. Why have twenty ships that explode when you so much as shine a light on them try to deliver a payload of twenty photon torpedoes and twenty mid-range phasers, when you can put a few high-power phaser strips and a quantum torpedo launcher in half the space it takes to launch those twenty ships.


Anger at carriers IN SPACE! aside, this ship in particular is just disgusting. Its a complete Mary Sue. No ship is invincible, and lord knows that even a single Sovereign class vessel could annihilate it. Hell the Sovereign class is enough of a Mary Sue, what with its incredibly powerful tactical systems and extremely strong shielding. They had to think up the most powerful ship in the Universe to fight the Sovereign, and the Scimitar at least had the weakness of "well I can blow pretty much anything up, but I guess there's not a whole hell of a lot else I can do."
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