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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
06-05-2012, 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelev
May I point you to the Karfi's frigate (frija or something like that). It is most certainly NOT a raider, further the feds have no analog to a raider.

Instead they should have something "fed like". A miranda light cruiser, a Nova science vessel, maybe a saber or NX escort.
This gives a variety of ways to take it (only need one).
You could go for a light cruiser with skills like FAW, and maybe an extend shield or some sort of healing.
You could go science and have it use possibly some team skills, and possibly CPB or another possibly more offensive science skill. Maybe let it have a torp or mine skill, a mine skill would make it pretty unique.
You could go with an escort, this would be pretty inline with what the KDF has for both frigates already (damage machines, with the karfi's being abit more on the cc side comparatively). Have it use unique weapons for a launchable craft like dual beams.

The options are there, the Atrox just lacks a fighter with muscle, something can be launched into "spam" and survive more than 2 seconds. Something that has the more robust staying power associated with the karfi frigates or bops.
The Maquis ships were originally Starfleet vessels and are a raider class ship. As they are actually Starfleet ships, a Maquis style raider would be "fed like." You are also mistaking that Frigates and Cruisers are interchangeable for the same class of ship. Cruisers are a noticeably larger vessel. Also, the other vessels you want would be absurd to stuff in a launch bay. You can either have your cake or you can eat it. The carrier is designed as a science ship that launches fighters and bombers for assault and "standoff" purposes. If you want to launch a Nova Science vessel or a Miranda, play one and leave spacedock.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
06-05-2012, 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucianalliance View Post
The Maquis ships were originally Starfleet vessels and are a raider class ship. As they are actually Starfleet ships, a Maquis style raider would be "fed like." You are also mistaking that Frigates and Cruisers are interchangeable for the same class of ship. Cruisers are a noticeably larger vessel. Also, the other vessels you want would be absurd to stuff in a launch bay. You can either have your cake or you can eat it. The carrier is designed as a science ship that launches fighters and bombers for assault and "standoff" purposes. If you want to launch a Nova Science vessel or a Miranda, play one and leave spacedock.
I am not wanting a nova or miranda, I am wanting "something".

As I have said previously, the miranda, nova, and other similar suggestions are there for simple fact of "they already exist". Where is a marquis raider ingame? They don't exist. Further a raider is defined by a "cloak" which the marquis didn't have (in sto terms a raider has a cloak).

You are hung up on this raider stuff and the whole "voquv, bop, duplicate!" sure thats an option, but why not get something more fed like? The karfi's frigate is much more fed like, no cloaking, and is more like a small cruiser. Though instead the fed frigate could have healing abilities instead of "dps lol" like the klinks have again giving a much more fed slant to the potential frigate.

Sure you can duplicate the bop, give it a marquis skin, and call it a day but why?

Further by your own reasons why should the voquv have the bop? If you want to fly it go get in one and undock.
Why should the feds be able to fly peregrines and stalkers, or the kdf toduj, when they are just carrier pets? If you want to use those just go get in a carrier and launch them!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
06-05-2012, 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelev
Uhm... maybe I point you to the orion ships? Particularly the interceptors?

The Orion Interceptor is the best CC fighter in the game, bar none, no questions asked.
Its launched in threes, and has a short cooldown, advanced version has chron torps (yes its more chron spam than runabouts), also has the ability to drain/offline engines AND weapons. Yup it can stack you with chron debuffs, and offline your weapons and engines, in a single fighter.


The karfi with its two unique fighters (friagte and skuls) costs 1600cp, it also comes with a built in special ability.
The voquv is FREE and comes with the unique bop hangars.
The Atrox is 2000cp, comes with a single unqiue pet, and no special abilities.

Get your voquv for free, buy a dracoit (or whatever the name fo the one with the interceptors is) and tadah, spent less than an Atrox and have better fighters and you also have flight deck officers. You also get all three different type of fighters (single, double, and triples).

So again why should the Atrox, not have access in some way to a single launch "frigate"?
Why shouldn't the Atrox be on remotely equal ground to there KDF counter parts?

The Atrox still needs fed flight deck officers which are "coming, at some point in the future", and realistically it still needs a frigate to fully compete with the other carriers (which cost less!).
Remotely equal you say? Any frigate that is released for the Atrox should then be Atrox only. That would be on par. Also, a Maquis style raider, as they were originally Starfleet vessels and components, would be the Federation equivalent to the KDF Bird-of-Prey raider. Frigates are traditionally smaller than even light cruisers and destroyers so launching anything Miranda or Defiant sized would be absurd.

The Dracoit is also a Commander rank vessel so you're essentially paying 800 points for the fighter. We have to spend C-Points to command a Science vessel. You have to spend to command a carrier. I'd say that's remotely equal.

You got your cloaking defiant. You got your carrier. You got your stealth fighter. Yet you always want more, more, more. KDF would be satisfied with some simple content and the starting at 1 we've went 2+ years without. Now new players begin at Commander but only after getting emotionally attached to the Federation character. Why shouldn't the KDF be on remotely equal ground with their Fed counterparts?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
06-05-2012, 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelev
I am not wanting a nova or miranda, I am wanting "something".

As I have said previously, the miranda, nova, and other similar suggestions are there for simple fact of "they already exist". Where is a marquis raider ingame? They don't exist. Further a raider is defined by a "cloak" which the marquis didn't have (in sto terms a raider has a cloak).

You are hung up on this raider stuff and the whole "voquv, bop, duplicate!" sure thats an option, but why not get something more fed like? The karfi's frigate is much more fed like, no cloaking, and is more like a small cruiser. Though instead the fed frigate could have healing abilities instead of "dps lol" like the klinks have again giving a much more fed slant to the potential frigate.

Sure you can duplicate the bop, give it a marquis skin, and call it a day but why?

Further by your own reasons why should the voquv have the bop? If you want to fly it go get in one and undock.
Why should the feds be able to fly peregrines and stalkers, or the kdf toduj, when they are just carrier pets? If you want to use those just go get in a carrier and launch them!
You're the ones that insist on the Atrox being a duplicate. The Kar'Fi can launch a frigate. ME WANT FRIGATE!!! Therein lies your duplicate entitlement. KDF has lived without real content. Fed can live without a Frigate.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
06-05-2012, 02:33 PM
It was only a matter of time before this began.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
06-05-2012, 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucianalliance View Post
Remotely equal you say? Any frigate that is released for the Atrox should then be Atrox only. That would be on par. Also, a Maquis style raider, as they were originally Starfleet vessels and components, would be the Federation equivalent to the KDF Bird-of-Prey raider. Frigates are traditionally smaller than even light cruisers and destroyers so launching anything Miranda or Defiant sized would be absurd.

The Dracoit is also a Commander rank vessel so you're essentially paying 800 points for the fighter. We have to spend C-Points to command a Science vessel. You have to spend to command a carrier. I'd say that's remotely equal.

You got your cloaking defiant. You got your carrier. You got your stealth fighter. Yet you always want more, more, more. KDF would be satisfied with some simple content and the starting at 1 we've went 2+ years without. Now new players begin at Commander but only after getting emotionally attached to the Federation character. Why shouldn't the KDF be on remotely equal ground with their Fed counterparts?
What do you mean equal grounds. You have 99 carriers and almost every ship of kdf is cloaked meaning a high boost in pvp and pve. Just like on the normal tv series. Can you not see that defiants have cloaks and voyager has ablative generators. You got almost the same missions as us. And you have Toron an tu'jud shuttles. You even wanted a feresan character and you can fully use season six. I think we are on equal grounds. You get the same patches as us. The point of a game is to have fun. But also to expand it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
06-05-2012, 03:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by silence1311
What do you mean equal grounds. You have 99 carriers and almost every ship of kdf is cloaked meaning a high boost in pvp and pve. Just like on the normal tv series. Can you not see that defiants have cloaks and voyager has ablative generators. You got almost the same missions as us. And you have Toron an tu'jud shuttles. You even wanted a feresan character and you can fully use season six. I think we are on equal grounds. You get the same patches as us. The point of a game is to have fun. But also to expand it.
I don't recall ever asking for a race of Meow Mix. But you did ask for the following: Shall I list the number of shuttles Federation has? Shall I post a comprehensive list of the number of story missions available to each faction respectively? How about the disparity in starting level coupled with new players being forced to roll Fed voluntarily or not? Or uniforms? Or perhaps species with an option for Female characters? The answer to all the rhetorical questions and more is the same: You don't.

Can you not see that you have your cloaking Defiant and Voyager with ablative armor? You just received your carrier and now it's not good enough. Why can't you be satisfied with the vast riches you have? The only time the above questions get asked is everytime a certain faction group of people begin screaming like an overweight child for another cupcake or a crack addict for another hit, neither of whose appetites can ever be sated. Can you not see the point of a game is to have fun but also expand it? We get the same patches but the difference in service is much like Fed and KDF only drinking fountains.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
06-05-2012, 04:36 PM
As some have already mentioned the fact that feds even got a carrier should be enough to make you thankful. I say this because the idea of a Fed carrier is just anathema (it is totally outside of Fed ship design philosophy). Really, just be happy you got a ship that the actual federation would have never made, or sanctioned to be made available, to begin with.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
06-05-2012, 06:23 PM
Starfleet has a bunch of good fighters. bops are also good, but being few in number is what they are best at. a host of fighters that throw quantum torpedoes is great for damage, even if watching them takes slightly more work.

what I need most for my covenant cat carrier are flight deck officers. they make fighter spam work better.

I can appreciate the want for more, but it should come at a cost, especially if you objectively look at what the vo'quv gets as a stock ship. you already have a ton of stuff, Starfleet.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
06-05-2012, 09:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelev
We are not talking about missions, player piloted shuttles, or random crap the KDF or FEDs might have.

We are talking about a even playing field for ships of the same exact class.
Sure variances are good, but at the same time lacking an entire TYPE of ship is different than "having less".
Klinks have more "fighters" (3 per launch) craft.
Feds have more "shuttles" (2 per launch) craft.
Feds don't have "frigates" (1 per launch) craft.

Both pre-existing carriers ingame have frigates, they are unique to carriers. FDC's CANNOT launch frigates, frigates are the "bigger" ships that only true carriers can launch. The Atrox doesn't have a frigate, yet is supposed to compete with ships that do.

This is not "oh he has more missions than me" or "oh his ships are better than mine"... Its "we don't even have this..."

BTW still waiting for fed flight deck doffs.
Sorry I thought you meant fair as in across the board I forgot the Definition of Fair changes for the Federation to we get what you get not we all get the same things. You can't ask for fairness in one field and deny it in others that is of course completely and utterly unfair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silence1311
To dknight1000....
Feds do not have yellowstone.
Also if you look at the bird of prey it has a cloak.
Dont you think that two danube runabouts with 18000 hull each and an ability of tractor beam 1 is worse than a single bird of prey with 36000 hull, abilities torpedo high yield 1 and canon rapid fire 1 and also a battle cloak and three good weapons. May i stress the fact that it has a battle cloak ?
I chose a different area of unfairness to talk about, playable shuttles. I am aware the Yellowstone isn't a launchable ship

Quote:
Originally Posted by silence1311
If you really expect someone to get from a level 25 klingon to 50 and leave every weapon and item and borg bridge officers they have then you are gravely mistaken.
No I don't, I think it's the most ridiculous thing in the game, yet Cryptic made it that way. KDF would love a Level 1 start point. I started off when you only had to get to Level 6 to play KDF. And even than after six levels most players stayed Fed side. I don't see WoW or SW:TOR making you play one faction first before you can change sides.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelOfDespair
i'd suggest the aquarius escort (little weaker version of course) as the bop/ferjai-frigate equivalent. it would definetely fit into the bays.
The Aquarius is part of the Odyssey it should not be seen without it's mother ship. That's why the Vulcan Shuttle will never be a launchable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shelev
Further by your own reasons why should the voquv have the bop? If you want to fly it go get in one and undock.
Why should the feds be able to fly peregrines and stalkers, or the kdf toduj, when they are just carrier pets? If you want to use those just go get in a carrier and launch them!
Well for starters the Klingons use the BoP as the workhorse of the Imperial Fleet so if a Carrier was made it was going to be built so that it can house said ship.

----------------------

You talk of fairness, but want it resticted to just Carriers only these things should be equal. But that's not how fairness works the sides can either be fair or they aren't. They can't be fair in some fields and skewed in others. And at this point in time the game is skewed in favour of the Federation. So tough luck you don't get a Carrier launched Frigate. If everything Klingon is so much better why haven't you swapped sides? Oh right the lose everything I worked for concept.

The NPC BoP isn't a Raider it's a Frigate, so the logical discussion is why doesn't the Catian launch the Federation NPC Frigate. Not T2 Sci Vessels (Seriously that one is way left field) Not T4 Escorts or even T1. The Miranda is the only Frigate Starfleet has and they don't make sense to come from the Catian ship.

The Feds cried for cloaking ships and got the Defiant and Dreadnought, than they cried for a Cloaking Sci vessel and realised that KDF don't have one and started crying for a Universal Cloak. You cried for a Carrier and now that you got one. It's too expensive, it turns too slow, it doesn't have BoPs. Klingons have cried for content, for equality. You've cried for their toys.

@ lucianalliance, good luck. Federation Fairness means they have the advantage not equality
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