Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
I'm sure i'm not the only one, who has at some point complained about the ridiculousness of the "Respawn penalty" that was added to STFs a while back. And here's my reasoning (and suggestion), as to how to potentially FIX it:

In Ground combat STFs, the penalty is rather fine, since every player has "Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation" (CPR), in order to revive fallen comrades. This gives players the OPTION to wait for respawn, or for team members to revive you. If all of your team has fallen, with noone able to revive, the "respawn timer" should be reset to 0.

The same is not true for Space combat STFs, since our ships blow up in "warpcore breech" explosions, and we don't have a "revive" ability for space. This leaves players with NO option, other than to wait for the respawn timer to run it's course, which becomes exceedingly long, depending on how often you die. And in it's current state, there are many ways to die, which are not necessarily preventable by the player.

What I propose, is an addition (and a change) to the Space STFs, in the form of a new ability which functions "like" the ground combat CPR ability, in that it allows players to revive other ships. It would function similar to any of the current "Hull healing" abilities, whereby it can bring a disabled ship (rather than destroyed), up from 0%. When ship has reeched 5-10% health, the player will be revived.

TL;DR: Add a new ability to Space STFs to revive other ships, and remove the "warpcore breech" explosions when ships "die". Make ships disabled at 0% rather than destroyed.

Discuss!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
06-06-2012, 05:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkthunder View Post
I'm sure i'm not the only one, who has at some point complained about the ridiculousness of the "Respawn penalty" that was added to STFs a while back. And here's my reasoning (and suggestion), as to how to potentially FIX it:

In Ground combat STFs, the penalty is rather fine, since every player has "Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation" (CPR), in order to revive fallen comrades. This gives players the OPTION to wait for respawn, or for team members to revive you. If all of your team has fallen, with noone able to revive, the "respawn timer" should be reset to 0.

The same is not true for Space combat STFs, since our ships blow up in "warpcore breech" explosions, and we don't have a "revive" ability for space. This leaves players with NO option, other than to wait for the respawn timer to run it's course, which becomes exceedingly long, depending on how often you die. And in it's current state, there are many ways to die, which are not necessarily preventable by the player.

What I propose, is an addition (and a change) to the Space STFs, in the form of a new ability which functions "like" the ground combat CPR ability, in that it allows players to revive other ships. It would function similar to any of the current "Hull healing" abilities, whereby it can bring a disabled ship (rather than destroyed), up from 0%. When ship has reeched 5-10% health, the player will be revived.

TL;DR: Add a new ability to Space STFs to revive other ships, and remove the "warpcore breech" explosions when ships "die". Make ships disabled at 0% rather than destroyed.

Discuss!

The fix for the respawn timer is for players to actually learn how to toss heals & buffs onto each other, and to generally learn how to play better.


In addition, unlike ground where you have to sometimes make a fairly long run back to your group, dying in space means you are worst about 3s from getting right back into the thick of the action.


The death penalty in this game is already a joke, the respawn timer at least adds a little bit to it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
06-06-2012, 05:51 AM
Quote:
The fix for the respawn timer is for players to actually learn how to toss heals & buffs onto each other, and to generally learn how to play better.


In addition, unlike ground where you have to sometimes make a fairly long run back to your group, dying in space means you are worst about 3s from getting right back into the thick of the action.


The death penalty in this game is already a joke, the respawn timer at least adds a little bit to it.
agreed, it encourages teamplay...healing, tanking etc

the idea brought up is an old one anyway, there are a few threads arguing the pros and cons about it.
The hole space combat system needed to be reworked to implement this feature in a reasonable way.

And to be honest, an avarege to good player won't die more than twice within 2 minutes in any elite stf. If he does, not the game has to change, he needs to read or ask more experianced players about ship setup and ability usage. and rethink his strategy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
06-06-2012, 05:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USS_Ultimatum
The fix for the respawn timer is for players to actually learn how to toss heals & buffs onto each other, and to generally learn how to play better.


In addition, unlike ground where you have to sometimes make a fairly long run back to your group, dying in space means you are worst about 3s from getting right back into the thick of the action.


The death penalty in this game is already a joke, the respawn timer at least adds a little bit to it.
In other words, the fix is:

1. Don't die so much.
2. Learn to play
3. See #1 and 2.

The death penalty is there for a reason. It keeps people from mindlessly zerging into a fight and promptly getting blown up over and over, wasting everyones time. The penalty gives you time to think, a painful thing for some, but useful for those who actually have something other than water sloshing around between their ears. :p

If you are dying so much that you are spending minutes respawning, you should do us all a favor and stay out of elite STFs because you don't belong there. Read the guides and fix whatever you problems are before coming back. I would have put teamwork first, but that does not seem to be a concept that apples to PUGs. If you are lucky enough to play with people that will give heals, so much the better, but even without that, it isn't hard to stay alive in an STF on your own. If yo can't, you are doing it wrong.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
06-06-2012, 06:40 AM
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
06-06-2012, 08:24 AM
I suggest it be an option on the map as well as the length of the timer. That way all playstyles are available. Other options can be added as well such as oneshot kills, use of tractor beams, etc. Of course the reward drop should scale in accordsance with the mix of options. Or if you turn down the default settings like turn off oneshot kills the number of unfriendlies increase, etc.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
06-06-2012, 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJayMor View Post
That was a good idea, but has failed completely.
No, the players have failed completely.

Developers can only push, or guide people toward a course Ė ultimately itís up to the players to actually learn how to play the game without having their hands held.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MJayMor View Post
The STF Queue used to be packed with users, where you would see the numbers always in the teens. Now when you use the queue system the average wait can be high, because most people don't even use the Queue system anymore. Most users us the EliteSTF, NormalSTF, STF, or whatever to get a team together.
That is users who wish to have a good experience controlling that experience by avoiding the players who are outright failures as I mentioned above. There is still a lack of cross healing on teams formed from those channels, but itís less of an issue as most people are at least competent, have a decent build and are capable of reading chat (which is how they got into the channel in the first place).


Quote:
Originally Posted by MJayMor View Post
The Death Penalty Timer did one thing that a lot of people myself included said would happen. It has split the STF community into the elite and newer STFers.
Newer STFers should not be doing Elites in the first place.

The game has already split it up on purpose.

There is nothing stopping players from reading the guides on the forums, and enacting the Elite strategies on normal STFs for practice.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MJayMor View Post
The Death Penalty timer makes the Elitist not want to help newer STFers, because there is a 95% chance they won't listen. The Death Penalty Timer was a bad idea and as long as it is in place it will continue to split the STF community.
If you are capable of making it into the Elite STF channel (easy), you are already able to prove you are capable of listening.

If youíve already practiced the strategies or at least read the guides a few times, you are already in a better place than most of the queue.

So as long as new players donít join and prove themselves to be incompetent, or act like a troll in the channel they will be able to get onto teams and run Elite STFs.


Sorry if you think that running these missions on elite means you should be able to show up with poor gear choices, poor build choices and no knowledge of the missions or strategies Ė but that is quite clearly not true.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MJayMor View Post
The space STFs were boring before the Death penalty timer and now are completely unattractive with the Death peanlty timer. Ever since this death penalty timer was put in place I have only done 10 +/- space STFs and I'm good at them. I have no desire to do the space STFs I can get the Mk XI and Mk XII gear without doing them so Im fine with that.
You play how you want to play.

No one is forcing you to join the queue exclusively, and youíre always welcome to start your own premades and teach new players the ropes, since you seem so concerned about them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
06-06-2012, 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJayMor View Post
That was a good idea, but has failed completely. The STF Queue use to be packed with users, where you would see the numbers always in the teens. Now when you use the queue system the average wait can be high, because most people don't even use the Queue system anymore. Most users us the EliteSTF, NormalSTF, STF, or whatever to get a team together.

The Death Penalty Timer did one thing that a lot of people myself included said would happen. It has split the STF community into the elite and newer STFers. The Death Penalty timer makes the Elitist not want to help newer STFers, because there is a 95% chance they won't listen. The Death Penalty Timer was a bad idea and as long as it is in place it will continue to split the STF community.

The space STFs were boring before the Death penalty timer and now are completely unattractive with the Death penalty timer. Ever since this death penalty timer was put in place I have only done 10 +/- space STFs and I'm good at them. I have no desire to do the space STFs I can get the Mk XI and Mk XII gear without doing them so Im fine with that.
Sounds like a description of a succes if you ask me...

The STF community SHOULD be split. While I have near infinite patience, there are some people who take running these things seriously. They get frustrated with people who don't know the ropes and/or don't listen. when they join a PUG, the end result is usually a stream of profanity punctuated by the occaisional noob reference. I can understand that it is frustrating to try to help someone that ignores you or is simply too dim to know that they need help. Rather than rant, the mature ones go off t find others who are more skilled to team with. If I cared about getting even more fairly useless (to me) salvage and ECDs, I would do the same. But I stick it out and try to help those whose weapons come in more colors than Lady Gaga's underwear, get through the elite STF they probably shouldn't even be playing in the first place. No good deed goes unpunished of course, but after almost a decade of MMOs, I have become very skilled at laughing at you then putting you on ignore. Like the guy in the technicolor beamed ship who kepting ranting that people were shooting the "regular" spheres in Infected. Hmm, I was pretty sure I was only shooting the "irregular" ones... :p

You say a lot of people thought the penalty timer was a bad idea. I have learned that most of the time "a lot of people" in MMOs are completely wrong. This is one of those times. You think it will force people who know that they are doing to carry those that don't? Not going to happen, penalty or no. They will still group with there peers because a person who can't be bothered to learn how its done is just as useless whether they come back after a minute or instantly. The penalty serves to discourage such people, or better, encourage them to seek help and knowledge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJayMor View Post
The space STFs were boring before the Death penalty timer and now are completely unattractive with the Death penalty timer. Ever since this death penalty timer was put in place I have only done 10 +/- space STFs and I'm good at them. I have no desire to do the space STFs I can get the Mk XI and Mk XII gear without doing them so Im fine with that.
As I said, working as intended. You are able to get what you need without doing them and people who need to do them (or god help them LIKE them), don't have their time wasted by someone who dies often enough to compalin about the timer. It's a win for everyone.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
06-06-2012, 10:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USS_Ultimatum
The fix for the respawn timer is for players to actually learn how to toss heals & buffs onto each other, and to generally learn how to play better.


In addition, unlike ground where you have to sometimes make a fairly long run back to your group, dying in space means you are worst about 3s from getting right back into the thick of the action.


The death penalty in this game is already a joke, the respawn timer at least adds a little bit to it.
Ok.
Explain to me how not to respawn front of the mob. I'm use to respawn front of Tac cube or Donatra. Especially in its death cone.
Also could you explain to me how to deal with Tac cube which is one shoting anyone with invisible torpedoes? Timer would be fine if there was not this kind of things.
Timer is ok if you don't respawn in the donatra death cone.
Timer is ok if Tac cube doesn't shot with invisible torpedoes.
Timer is ok if Donatra can't one shot you out of 10 km.
Timer is ok if there is less bugs in the gameplay.
I'm agree with timer but without cheating mob.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
06-07-2012, 03:34 AM
Quote:
Ok.
Explain to me how not to respawn front of the mob. I'm use to respawn front of Tac cube or Donatra. Especially in its death cone.
Also could you explain to me how to deal with Tac cube which is one shoting anyone with invisible torpedoes? Timer would be fine if there was not this kind of things.
Timer is ok if you don't respawn in the donatra death cone.
Timer is ok if Tac cube doesn't shot with invisible torpedoes.
Timer is ok if Donatra can't one shot you out of 10 km.
Timer is ok if there is less bugs in the gameplay.
I'm agree with timer but without cheating mob.
if you the cube/donatra already moved to the respawn point, then your whole team is really to blame. Means the whole team cannot deal any signifficant amount of dmg and they die continously.

the invis torpedo happens maybe once every 3-4 stf's i join...don't know how frequent that is with you, but it's not that frequent to have an impact on my respawn timer anyway.

Quote:
Timer is ok if you don't respawn in the donatra death cone.
Timer is ok if Tac cube doesn't shot with invisible torpedoes.
Timer is ok if Donatra can't one shot you out of 10 km.
all 3 never happened to me or only a 1 or 2 times lately. the invis torpedo still exists, but not as frequent as it was when the new stf's hit holodeck. so it cannot be the fault for constant deaths.

don't get me wrong, but i think, according to your comment, there is still some potential for improvements regarding your built and gameplay.
basically you shouldn't die more than once or twice in an elite stf, if the rest of the grp is any good. and you know what to do.
And if you die only once or twice...even 3 times...the timer becomes irrelevant.
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