Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Op and Theory
06-10-2012, 02:32 PM
On the op part if all carriers in the game have 40k hull strength and TWO LT commander spots, plus a commander bridge officer spot. They really need to nerf one of those LT commander spots down to LT. This would make that ship a whole lot even to the rest. I mean my word no cruiser no escort, no science ship in the teir 5 even comes close that kind of power. I would have said something earlier but I did not think they would be so ignorant as to place one ship class above all others.

Now that my little rant is gone for the day. I had a thought about a set up for my escort, and wanted to know peoples thoughts on it. I know before transfer shield strength was nerfed awhile back, it was a good shield ability. Now not so much. If I was to take my LT Sci spot and make it science team one, and transfer shield strength two. Then take my LT engineer and make it emg to aux for transfer shield strength, and have eng team two do you think it would work well?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
06-11-2012, 12:49 AM
Since we're piling on Carriers today, can it be that they are totally overpowered for PvE?

I fly the Kar'Fi at Elite, and I can blow through enemy ships almost as fast as with my Escort - with a lot more healing resources and a lot less DPS buff investment. The pets more than compensate the 1 weapon slot I'm missing compared to a Cruiser, even when I run my Tetryon Beam build.
And I don't think the regular Carriers are any weaker, even if they only have 6 weapon slots.

I find it hard to gauge how much of this potency translates well to PvP, but it could very well be that it's just as bad there. And if it's not the Kar'Fi advantages that translate well having a free Tractor Beam power on an Atrox could be the perk.
So Carriers are not only the most unfun enemy to engage due to the ridicilious pet spam, they are also overpowered thanks to it.

And I don't even think the BO seating is that problematic (it is, but not that, at least all Carriers with those BO seatings have sucktastic turn rates). Just the extra DPS and crowd control from the pets.
And heck, I haven't even tried any flight deck cruisers yet.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
06-11-2012, 02:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
[...]. The pets more than compensate the 1 weapon slot I'm missing compared to a Cruiser, even when I run my Tetryon Beam build.
[...]
Actually, they compensate more than that. DPS-wise, I know from measurement that my pets do 2500 dps even when I use a mixed Runabout/Stalker setup on the Tolerance - should be more with two Stalkers or even Peregrines. But that is required, because the pets can be taken out, meaning they will not do that damage all the time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
06-11-2012, 04:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo
Actually, they compensate more than that. DPS-wise, I know from measurement that my pets do 2500 dps even when I use a mixed Runabout/Stalker setup on the Tolerance - should be more with two Stalkers or even Peregrines. But that is required, because the pets can be taken out, meaning they will not do that damage all the time.
Given how fast my Kar'Fi can recycle its pets... Not a big issue. And I even have suicidal ones!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
06-11-2012, 04:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
Given how fast my Kar'Fi can recycle its pets... Not a big issue. And I even have suicidal ones!
Yes, that is the only thing that bothers me a bit about carriers, too. The base cooldowns are definitely too low for all the pets.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
06-11-2012, 04:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo
Yes, that is the only thing that bothers me a bit about carriers, too. The base cooldowns are definitely too low for all the pets.
The problem is probably PvP vs PvE. PvE enemies take forever to kill just a single pet usually. In PvP, it's a single Cannon Scatter Volley that will rip your pets apart.

There seems to be no sensible way to balance these these two extremes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
06-11-2012, 04:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
The problem is probably PvP vs PvE. PvE enemies take forever to kill just a single pet usually. In PvP, it's a single Cannon Scatter Volley that will rip your pets apart.

There seems to be no sensible way to balance these these two extremes.
Buff the pve ships... perhaps its time the NPCs got to use weapon power setting. lol
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
06-11-2012, 04:16 AM
Well, I don't see the problem in PvE. Longer cooldowns would not harm them. And in PvP, we already know that the dps of the pets is taking into account that they might be gone quickly. Balancing the cooldown for PvP according to their dps shouldn't be hard and would not effect PvE at all.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
06-11-2012, 04:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo
Well, I don't see the problem in PvE. Longer cooldowns would not harm them. And in PvP, we already know that the dps of the pets is taking into account that they might be gone quickly. Balancing the cooldown for PvP according to their dps shouldn't be hard and would not effect PvE at all.
The problem is if Carriers are most of the time without their pets thanks to some player keeping Spam Clearance Duty, it can quickly feel like being a Carrier is pointless.

Maybe it could be blanaced better if pets would be designed to launch a single assault, and then return to refuel and rearm? Then you have decent "burst" capability (possiblity at extended range), but there would be counters in form of "spam clearance" powers. Basically balance the pets damage potential around a very short time they are expected to live, and ensure they are unlikely to inflict damage much longer since they automatically fly home.

That would mirror "real world" carriers more closely as well, since fighters don't stay in active combat all that long. (They patrol some time, but active engagements means expending lots of fuel for maneuverung and firing missiles and other ammo that they don't have all that much onboard).


Maybe like this:
1) Fighters launch
2) Fighters engage target, fire for up to 30 seconds.
3) Fighters fly back to Carrier for refuel
4) Each Fighter that returns back reduces your pet recharge cooldown by a percentage.

Pet Recharge Cooldowns could be about 3-4 minutes normally, and be reduced to 1/4th if all pets return.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
06-11-2012, 04:33 AM
Hm, that might work, but it would not be Star Trek at all. Even small ship fly around for days or even weeks without refueling.

You are right, the cooldown needs to be balanced. But an opposing player put on "pet clearance duty" would mean taking out (the equivalent of) one enemy ship out of the dps equation for some time... which is hardly "not contributing".
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