Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
06-12-2012, 03:07 AM
Originally Posted by reyan01
Whilst I agree, I do feel that it had one or two good episodes. Scorpion was pretty great, despite it being the platform for Voyager becoming the Seven of Nine show, and I especially enjoyed 'Year of Hell' - it was, in my opinion, what Voyager should have been. - no quick fixes, no easy solutions and no ship gets blasted then suddenly looks immaculate
If Ron Moore would have done Voyager and not DS9, I predict that Year of Hell would have been an entire season. And the Voyager would not get much better...

Though I must say the actual villain and the time-travel stuff of Year of Hell doesn't really work well for a full season. SO maybe not, or he would have failed just as the actual show runners did.

I think the "Year of Hell" could have been a Borg season.

Imagine Voyager detecting its first Borg Cube. Just a single lone one. And they know the ship is headed to an area they had just made a little friendly contact with - but still similiar "primitive" in technology than the Kazon - no replicators or transporters - but may with some other cool perks (Maybe less tech and more biological traits - something the Borg would still bother to assimilate).
And now the entire season revolves around the idea that the crew tries to save these people from the Borg. Tries to resolve the conflicts between the factions and building an alliance. It could mix the "dark" aspects of DS9 (or BSG) with the Startrek typical concept of hope - imagine the Voyager building basically a second Federation in response to the Borg - but at great cost - both for them and for the new-formed alliance.

But eventually, they set on a new path, leaving behind these allies. A season possibly more focused on exploration, but maybe with the Hirogen as recurring villain. Then we finally get another Borg season - this time with Species 8472. And finally, the Voyager makes it home (without any time travel - by out-smarting the Borg and Species 8472, using the chaos of a violent conflict between them to enter the transwarp network, get to Earth and disrupt the network. (In this alternate VOY version, the transwarp network could be a more recent Borg development - it's weird that the Borg didn't use the hub before to send a bunch of Cubes into Federation space...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
06-12-2012, 03:56 AM
the first episodes/seasons of voyager are boring. it starts to get cool with 7of9 (season 4 or what it was) and the whole borg story.
Lt. Commander
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# 23
06-12-2012, 03:57 AM
Voyager was my first Star Trek series I felt at home with and just about watched all 7 seasons back to back (it took a few months, and it was awesome.)

Why I got into it fine was ironically because Janeway was presented as imperfect and making a lot of risky 'survival' decisions in the Delta Quadrant. In a way her personality may not give the image of a picture perfect utopian-styled idol like Picard, but that made her character a realistic one to an extent. I'm a fan of female leadership IRL and the quirks in Janeway's character are quite familiar to me.

While a lot would dislike her for that reason alone I happen to find that working under ladies in power tends to give a lot of unique situational opportunities for advancement - resulting in such as Chakotay's joint command authority.

Her imperfections are, to me, not flaws but invitations for subordinates and colleagues to exercise their initiative to strengthen the chain of command and to gain personal advancement. My clients and managers IRL do appreciate such as well, and likewise do grant me freedom to exercise personal initiative.

Captain Janeway is someone who I'd like to have in the centre seat in stressful conditions where decisions have to be made in the thick of things - she is a 'damn the torpedoes' kind of leader who can make controversial decisions to surmount immediate challenges.

May not be nice for Starfleet reports, but it gets the job done. People don't have to like the specifics, but what matters is USS Voyager did get home in one piece (in both timelines) despite overwhelming odds.

It's only after watching all 7 seasons of Voyager that I started to appreciate DS9 in its entirety, because it approached the issue of managing a remote, under-equipped station (for the first two seasons or so) with a congenial, mutually supportive style of leadership. It's a bit different than the hierachies and power plays in Voyager, but turns out a bit too clean and perfect by the time of Season 4.

Which is why I prefer Voyager. The controversy and the risk goes all the way to the end. At any time I wasn't exactly sure how the ship was going to make it back home within the 7 year timeframe.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 24
06-12-2012, 04:02 AM
Mispost, deleting
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
06-12-2012, 04:56 AM
Originally Posted by PodSix
I also have to put my voice on the side of Enterprise. It's a very underrated show. Especially once Shran gets involved.
I have to agree. Hell, they even had damage done to the ship consistent in the third season, something which Voyager barely even attempted. I still like voyager, but I'd personally put enterprise above it in quality.
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# 26
06-12-2012, 06:09 AM
The first 3 seasons of Voyager are very hit and miss, season 4 onwards it's really amazing.
Same way DS9 really picked up at season 4. TNG too but I'm not as much a fan of that as the others. ENT has some great episodes throughout.
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# 27
06-12-2012, 06:49 AM
I keep coming on the forum and get side tracked...

This is my answer about all the shows in general:
Link to DS9 thread

But to expand my answer on Voyager. No I don't think it got better. There was many fans and people on the show who said, they dumped the Kes character and hired the Seven character because she had bigger breasts. My husband didn't even watch all the episodes of Voyager. He said -some of the worse- off the top of his head deal with time travel, reverse evolution, falling in love with holograms, and others that are rip-offs of TNG.

Personally I thought Riker was cute, not just in the looks department. There is no one like this on Voyager. No character you could possibly like, so you get the feeling they should just stay put and look for a quiet planet to live on. Frankly I was surprised there wasn't a mutiny and the Captain marooned with Tuvok, it would have been better.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 28
06-12-2012, 08:11 AM
Almost every series had turning points where the majority of episodes suddenly became engaging and fun to watch (even though they still had a few duds). Voyager though maintained about the same consistency throughout. It’s true that the characters became a bit more entertaining towards the end, and good episodes are of higher quality, but you still had to roll dice most of the time.

My advice is to do some homework. Voyager is a great series if you learn which ones are the bad episodes and which are good, then skip all the bad ones. They cover the same important plot points repeatedly in consecutive episodes so there are very few key episodes that you “can’t miss” to follow the story (unlike DS9 where around 1/3 of episodes have important points that make you go “huh?” if you skipped them). You may have a new respect for Voyager if you do this.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
06-12-2012, 09:05 AM
I have found something good about each Star Trek series. Each one had something to teach of value.

Morality, doing the right thing, compassion, empathy and acceptance.

I love them all especially any of the episodes that end with the captain haunted by a regrettable but necessary action.. Or a quite moment of thought..

The end of TNG’s “Best of both worlds”

The end of DS9’s “By the pale moonlight”

And who can’t help feel a bit sorry for Apollo In TOS’s “Who mourns for Adonis? “ Or Charley’s begging “ I want to stay, I want stay” After all it was not his fault he had now idea no to control his power.

And of course all that witty banter between Spock and Bones, Garak and Julian, Seven and the doctor.

Bones: “Why you green blooded pointy eared hobgoblin!”

Julian: “Ah Mr Garrak, how’s business?”

Garrek: “Which business is that? Oh you mean the spy business?”

The Doctor: “Seven. Between self expression and vulgarity there is realm of good taste that begging to make your acquaintance!”

Devore inspector, Kashyk: “You created false readings!”

Janeway: “That was the theme for this evening wasn’t?”

Janeway: “You gave the us the technology, it seemed a shame to waste it.”
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
06-12-2012, 09:21 AM
Yes Voyager had it's faults:

1.Season 1 lack of resources, but they managed to give all the maquis new uniforms and rank symbols.
4.Janeway's hair
5.Ship always seemed perfect (see number 1.)
6. Tom and Janeway's offspring in the episode that shall not be named.
7. the bridge with the captain's love seat for 2, and not a single chair.
8. Kim never gets promoted
9. holodecks apparently use a different energy source thereby are ok to use all the time
10. no one keeping track of where they were (I believe by the end of the series it had been calculated they were well into the beta quadrant)

But it's enjoyable. I think they really did not know what to do with Janeway. I personally think they should have explored a captain who came from the science division a bit more then they did. Up until then all the captains seemed to have come out of tactical in the command structure. I think it could have been grittier with the maquis people. More crew conflict, like DS9 had. Less keep to the letter of federation law, more lets survive this and then discuss the legality of the issues. It's not like Starfleet had set rules about survival. The Omega directive itself nullifies the rules, but getting a crew home safe doesn't?

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