Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
06-13-2012, 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KamikazKid
Escorts are the best in STFs, if you have a 5 escort team they take 15 minutes.
If it takes you 15 minutes to complete an Elite STF with five escorts, you should re-think your loadout. It's possible to get optional objectives done with a one-escort team or even a no-escort team if the people know what they're doing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
06-13-2012, 10:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by krenlik View Post
Assuming that you're not just trolling.... STFs are geared primarily to escorts. DPS is the name of the game, and that's what escorts do. You may blow up occasionally, but any STF without at least 2 escorts is going to be a long and ugly road. It can be done, but it's much less painful with adaquate firepower.
I think it's troll...
Troll start
So What you said is only true if there is no klingon players in the pug. Klingon players don't need escorts to get optionnals in elite space stf. Defian is toy for noobs
Troll end :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
06-13-2012, 10:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferdzso View Post
you dont need anything else, but escorts

most cruisers ignore the threat lvl skil, so they are of no use, since the borg gonna go for the higher dps, and guess what? its not coming from the cruiser...

cruisers and sci ships can finish an stf without an escort, but they can say good bye to the optional most of the time
I DID put some points into threat (space) skill and it worked pretty well, I'd get shot alot. Donatra always gave me the love...

But, I never got any assist w/ dealing with that extra lovin', so would blow up alot for some reason...
So, I re-speced out of it.
Now I don't have agro the whole time. I find that I like not exploding that often.
-----------------------------
And yes, when there are escorts those tac cubes go boom fast. When there aren't any they take forever and 95% of the time the optional is not gonna happen, even on normal difficulty.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
06-14-2012, 12:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by krenlik View Post
Assuming that you're not just trolling.... STFs are geared primarily to escorts. DPS is the name of the game, and that's what escorts do. You may blow up occasionally, but any STF without at least 2 escorts is going to be a long and ugly road. It can be done, but it's much less painful with adaquate firepower.
dps are important, but there is no need to be a team of escorts only... more than once I saved the optional and the mission using my science vessel.
I think a good mix of ships is better than a team of only escorts, even if my favorite character is a tactical officer and his escort ship.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
06-14-2012, 01:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raudl View Post
best setup in my opinion is a cruiser that can tank a cube and a gate+4 escorts with cannons
but if there are several opponents than a science vessel with GW and escorts with AoE attack abilities are better.

IMHO the best is a cruiser a science vessel and 3 escorts...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
06-14-2012, 01:50 AM
Quote:
but if there are several opponents than a science vessel with GW and escorts with AoE attack abilities are better.

IMHO the best is a cruiser a science vessel and 3 escorts...
well you don't necessarely need a sci vessel for a GW...multi vector, or sci oddy are just fine at that...and deal more, or tank better than sci vessels.
thats the reason i didn't count them in, because there are better ships out there to do sci vessels job.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
06-14-2012, 01:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eurialo
dps are important, but there is no need to be a team of escorts only... more than once I saved the optional and the mission using my science vessel.
I think a good mix of ships is better than a team of only escorts, even if my favorite character is a tactical officer and his escort ship.
In my experience pure escort teams tend to struggle on elite. escorts just don't have the durability needed to take aggro and I doubt that many escort pilots would willingly spec in threat control! A well set up cruiser being flow by a well specced engineer is a godsend let me tell you
The very best teams I've seen/been part of have been ones with only 2 or 3 escorts.

Also I would like to point you all in the direction of this equation:
Cruiser - threat control = WORTHLESS cruiser.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
06-14-2012, 02:20 AM
Interesting views in this thread

There is no need for any other ship in an Elite STF other than an escort , it's easily the best ship to use.

All Elite STFs can completed much easier with all escort teams, actually other ship classes make it harder, all PvE can be done quicker in Escorts

I have Sci, Eng and Tac characters all use escorts or kdf gurumba for STFs

At the moment escorts can tank almost as well as the other classes and do far far more effective damage, when Pugging Elite STFs usually do most damage by quite a bit.

Using My science as an example in STF
Sci Ship does 800k damage (very little help to team even with grav well, repulsors etc )
Cruiser does 1.4 mill damage
Escort does 2.0 mill damage

I will very rarely die in any elite stf when pugging it , I see pugs who critise other players but when you look at the combat parser they are only doing a few hundred thousand of the damage, good tac escorts will often do 1/3-1/2 team damage themselves

A very good STF build that would see 90% of players do much much more damage is below

Fleet escort

4 x double heavy cannons, 3 x turrets
Borg x3 Maco shield
Tac Team, Cannon scatter volley 1, attack omega 1, cannon scatter volley 3
Tac Team, attack beta, attack omega 1,
Emergancy power shields, RSP 1
Emergancy power shields
Hazard emitters 1 , transfer shield str 2

You can tank like a boss in this and do tons of damage, always have tac team and emergancy power to shields running.

a balance pass is needed to improve other ship types PvE usefulness, but till then use an escort or your not helping the team
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
06-14-2012, 03:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Covenanter
Interesting views in this thread

There is no need for any other ship in an Elite STF other than an escort , it's easily the best ship to use.
Kar'fi.

Pretty much Escort raw DPS, plus GW1, PSW3/TR3/GW3 and two wings of fighters.
It's so overpowered for PVE it borders on ridiculous.


Quote:
All Elite STFs can completed much easier with all escort teams, actually other ship classes make it harder, all PvE can be done quicker in Escorts

I have Sci, Eng and Tac characters all use escorts or kdf gurumba for STFs

At the moment escorts can tank almost as well as the other classes and do far far more effective damage, when Pugging Elite STFs usually do most damage by quite a bit.

Using My science as an example in STF
Sci Ship does 800k damage (very little help to team even with grav well, repulsors etc )
Cruiser does 1.4 mill damage
Escort does 2.0 mill damage
I agree that Escorts can be almost as Tanky as Cruisers or Scis.

However it looks like that Sci ship isn't even remotely trying to DPS, and the Cruiser is probably a Beam Boat.
Worst case scanario, a broadsiding Sci should be doing a little less than a broadsiding Cruiser with 6 Banks operating at higher energy than a Cruiser's 8 Banks, but Scis have a much better turn rate and will do far better with Torp/DBB/Turret setups than broadsiding setups in STFs.

My own Tac Nebula build has zero investment into Threat Skill and regularly pulls aggro from Escorts when fighting Cubes or Donata.
If I'm flying a Kar'fi on my Sci KDF Captain, which can take out two Transformers and a Gate far faster than the same Captain can on his Guramba, it's very rare for anyone to pull aggro from me (again, zero threat skill).
The trick is maximising your raw damage like you would on an Escort, then throwing in higher-tier Sci BOFF powers for a lot of extra DPS.

The ship type with the lowest achievable potential damage for STFs is actually Federation Cruisers, not Sci vessels.


Quote:
I will very rarely die in any elite stf when pugging it , I see pugs who critise other players but when you look at the combat parser they are only doing a few hundred thousand of the damage, good tac escorts will often do 1/3-1/2 team damage themselves

A very good STF build that would see 90% of players do much much more damage is below

Fleet escort

4 x double heavy cannons, 3 x turrets
Borg x3 Maco shield
Tac Team, Cannon scatter volley 1, attack omega 1, cannon scatter volley 3
Tac Team, attack beta, attack omega 1,
Emergancy power shields, RSP 1
Emergancy power shields
Hazard emitters 1 , transfer shield str 2

You can tank like a boss in this and do tons of damage, always have tac team and emergancy power to shields running.
Good setup certainly, but not quite optimal.

I highly suspect that at least one torp would vastly increase your Hull DPS or Spike Damage, but my main complaint would be that a single low powered copy of APB is hurting your team's DPS. APB3 is where it's at for team synergy, and is the best DPS difference an Escort can bring to the table when compared to Sci Vessels and Cruisers.

You're also very likely going to have a tough time tanking Elite Tac Cubes if your only source of healing is HE1.
My own Fleet Escort can comfortably tank or solo Elite Tac Cubes, but at a minimum requires Aux2SIF instead of RSP1.

(My Cruisers and Sci Vessels can do the same, but the Fleet Escort is the squishiest ship I regularly fly - even moreso than my Guramba due to the lack of a Plasmonic Leech console feeding its shield setting)

Quote:
a balance pass is needed to improve other ship types PvE usefulness, but till then use an escort or your not helping the team
A Balance Pass to improve other ship types would make Carriers even more ridiculously overpowered for PVE.

There is nothing inherently wrong with Cruiser or Sci builds for contribution in PVE, you just need to build them differently to an Escort if you're looking for STF DPS: An optimal Sci Build will involve Turrets, DBBs and Torpedo Launchers along with skills such as PSW3/GW3, an optimal Cruiser build will involve the same weapon setup as Sci Vessels plus upper tiers of EPTW and DEM.

The main problem is that a lot of people tend to stick with the standard "broadsiding" weapon setups, or forget about [Borg] modifier torpedos' guaranteed extra 1000 damage-per-shot versus Borg. That's fine for most PVE, and PVP, but vastly sub par if you're trying to DPS on STFs.

All that said, I'd rather be flying a Sci vessel with CC powers in a PUG regardless of how many Escorts there are or how much extra damage me being in an Escort could bring to the table. Random people are dumb, and I can save optionals much easier on my Nebula than on my Fleet Escort (whilst still usually killing things faster than three teammates combined).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
06-14-2012, 04:02 AM
Quote:
Kar'fi.

Pretty much Escort raw DPS, plus GW1, PSW3/TR3/GW3 and two wings of fighters.
It's so overpowered for PVE it borders on ridiculous.
pretty true, allthough i prefer 2 advanced frigates.

Quote:
My own Tac Nebula build has zero investment into Threat Skill and regularly pulls aggro from Escorts when fighting Cubes or Donata.
that happens often, but due to incompetent players, not because you deal way more dmg in a nebula than some capable persons in an escort.

Quote:
I highly suspect that at least one torp would vastly increase your Hull DPS or Spike Damage, but my main complaint would be that a single low powered copy of APB is hurting your team's DPS. APB3 is where it's at for team synergy, and is the best DPS difference an Escort can bring to the table when compared to Sci Vessels and Cruisers.
one torp for STF's i would suggest too, but there are some dps calculation that favour 4 cannons. But i can't see any reason why APB 1 would hurt the team DPS, sure APB 3 is better, but hurting team dps is unlogical. I mean his 3 AP built is kind of wasted anyway, but thats what you get when running 4 cannons, you get pretty limited in your power choice.

Quote:
All that said, I'd rather be flying a Sci vessel with CC powers in a PUG regardless of how many Escorts there are or how much extra damage me being in an Escort could bring to the table. Random people are dumb, and I can save optionals much easier on my Nebula than on my Fleet Escort (whilst still usually killing things faster than three teammates combined).
but thats because your nebula is more functional, but if the problem of your grp is missing dmg output, then the nebula is not as good as your escort. KA elite i'd rather use an escort than a nebula, since taking out the probes is faster than CCing them with your nebula.

Quote:
You're also very likely going to have a tough time tanking Elite Tac Cubes if your only source of healing is HE1.
My own Fleet Escort can comfortably tank or solo Elite Tac Cubes, but at a minimum requires Aux2SIF instead of RSP1.
i highly doubt you are able to tank it with a tactical captain, an engi for sure. I usually just get the aggro, and keep distance...cube still follows me, but i'm unable to DPS it.
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