Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
06-16-2012, 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalavier View Post
... Snip ...

Also, as stated in this very topic. Tractor beams are a global setting. You can't just make shuttles using tractor beams to be less effective.

.... Snip ...
You're wrong. Tractor Beam mines have a reduced hold. Tractor Beam Repulsers have a reduced effect depending on the sizes of the 2 ships. The resistance skills are less effective vs NPC abilities than Player Boff abilities. Edit: In otherwords resistance skill are far more effective vs Boff abilties than they are vs NPCs including pets.

To spell it out for you that's 3 ways they could adjust the effectiveness of Tractor Beams:

1. Reduce NPC hold value.

2. Introduce variable based on mass or inertia.

3. Adjust the effectiveness of passive resistance damp skill.

Further, believe it or not KDF have some very nasty pets and I'm not talking about the siphon drones. The issue isn't just the Feds pets. The issue is Pets are more effective then Boff abilities, can avoid cooldown mechanics via Flight Deck Doffs, and are far more numerous. Good luck killing off pets faster than a team players w/3 purple doffs can spit them out. Also, counters don't work for things like cront procs and multiple TBs.

What do you think you're going to kill w/multiple Ace Beams on you and your teammates along w/weapon&engine drain beams? How are you doing to run w/muliple cront procs? How effective is Extend shields going to be w/HY Trics from pets stunning your support ships?

On the other hand how fun do you think it will be to have the new escort hit you w/EWP, followed by AMS, then pet TB/phaser proc spam all the while bringing DHCs to bear?

Sci abilities have been nerfed only to give them to pets for C-Store ships and they're many times more effective now. The debuffing/CC has gotten way out of hand. There's nothing fun about this no matter which faction you play for, if you abuse imbalances et al, or are bused by the imbalances.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
06-17-2012, 05:11 AM
Better example about the kids thing. It's like playing red rover. Only, instead of a line, you got a crowd.

As for luck in killing pets, I don't PVP, at all. Still, as the senior member with nice orange text pointed out. To put in something that causes damage if you try using a tractor beam on a larger target is a tall order. And, AGAIN.

If you are in a carrier/bortas. Why are you complaining about being stopped? Those things don't have the ability to turn to remove an escort from facing a certain arc.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
06-17-2012, 05:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyprodimus
No, we just want the effect to be inversely proportional to the target's mass and engine strength.

So yes, by that logic, a smaller ship like BoPs and Escorts shouldnt be able to stop a much larger one with impulse engines the size of the other ship.

Theres a lot of stuff that doesnt make sense in this game, (like how does warp plasma affect you when your shields are up? The stuff shouldnt be able to pass through), but the tractor pets are game breaking.

Out of playability issues alone they need to be changed.
But that logicd the smaller vessels should get bonus speed, maneuverability and Defense bonus. SOmehting that they do not get. SO sure. I am all for that kind tractor. But if your going to nerf there ability to hold based on size they need to have the advantages they would get do there size.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
06-17-2012, 06:23 AM
Point Defense Consoles... or automated defense turret.

I find most consoles dont do squat for a lot of my builds, or should i say i dont RELY on consoles, pretty much the only console all my ships ever have is the assimilated console, and usually one of the point defense or automated defense consoles. they tear through fighters and runabouts.

2. Polarize hull. It neutralizes all tractor beams AND gives you resistances to torpedo strikes. i find it useful for when shields are low and my shield recharges are on cooldown or im being hit by tractor beams.

3. attack Patterns. I know at least one of these negates tractor beams as well as giving other buffs, just like polarize hull. have both.


I tend to run a mix of all three of the above, having at least 2 of them on my ships.



also your example of tractor beams ripping apart a ship because of size differences wouldnt be valid. why should a directed energy beam rip apart a ship just because its latching onto something bigger than it? If anything, the pets should be dragged around by the bigger ship until the combined power of smaller ships overtake the big one.


Now, if you were seeing the Grappler of the NX Replica being used... sure that might happen if the hsip is reversing when grappling onto a bigger ship, but again, if its just stopped, the larger ship should be dragging it around.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
06-17-2012, 12:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenkari
Point Defense Consoles... or automated defense turret.

I find most consoles dont do squat for a lot of my builds, or should i say i dont RELY on consoles, pretty much the only console all my ships ever have is the assimilated console, and usually one of the point defense or automated defense consoles. they tear through fighters and runabouts.

2. Polarize hull. It neutralizes all tractor beams AND gives you resistances to torpedo strikes. i find it useful for when shields are low and my shield recharges are on cooldown or im being hit by tractor beams.

3. attack Patterns. I know at least one of these negates tractor beams as well as giving other buffs, just like polarize hull. have both.


I tend to run a mix of all three of the above, having at least 2 of them on my ships.



also your example of tractor beams ripping apart a ship because of size differences wouldnt be valid. why should a directed energy beam rip apart a ship just because its latching onto something bigger than it? If anything, the pets should be dragged around by the bigger ship until the combined power of smaller ships overtake the big one.


Now, if you were seeing the Grappler of the NX Replica being used... sure that might happen if the hsip is reversing when grappling onto a bigger ship, but again, if its just stopped, the larger ship should be dragging it around.
From a play mechanic point of view PH and APO do NOT stop MULTIPLE TBs from stopping a ship dead in its tracks. You and other posters are just flat out wrong w/this assumption.

Further Flight deck doffs mean the Pets can be relaunched before your console comes close to recharging, same for BFAW. Keep in mind the ad. frigs have more hull HP then BoPs flown by players (over 31k hull alone). 3 Purple doffs is ~7.5 sec reduction/doff for a total of ~22 sec reduction each time an hangar has a squad launched.

To the other poster, Karfi has a very good turn rate for it's size. I've had zero problems applying DHCs to escorts. You greatly underestimate the effects of things like stacked cront procs, power drained subsystems, stacking weapons procs, and tbs.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
06-17-2012, 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinkuu_Akagan
The one thing about Tractor Beams and Movement...

In order to make your enormous Cruiser takes a LOT more power to overcome its inertia. So if it is currently In-Motion it will take significant amounts of energy to stop it. If it is currently stationary it takes significant amounts of power to make it move. Now the Engines on these behemoths may not be well designed to accelerate them quickly. If that is so then a Tractor Beam, no matter how comparatively weak, could be a real hindrance.

Yes, a Galaxy has a LOT more power than a Runabout BUT the Galaxy is trying to move a LOT of ship with its engines so hindering its ability to do that is tricky business.

As for the Defiant, it may have an engine similar to a Galaxy but keep in mind a Galaxy has 3 of them.
yes the galaxy has alot more ship but space is empty it wouldnt take alot to move a large ship .

if u fart in space you will never stop moving ;p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
06-17-2012, 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadDog0000
yes the galaxy has alot more ship but space is empty it wouldnt take alot to move a large ship .

if u fart in space you will never stop moving ;p
Theoretically you never stop moving. However in reality your movement could be affected by many things, not the least of which is gravity from some object.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
06-17-2012, 07:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ncha
There's no precedent in canon that tractor beams work in any way that is NOT syncronious with the mass of the ship projecting and being towed.

Tractor beams that are tied in to the Structural integrity field of a ship has reduced inertial pull on the ship. So in cannon yes its possible. Enterprise D Technical manual, page 90.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
06-17-2012, 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCO
But that logicd the smaller vessels should get bonus speed, maneuverability and Defense bonus. SOmehting that they do not get. SO sure. I am all for that kind tractor. But if your going to nerf there ability to hold based on size they need to have the advantages they would get do there size.
Sure, I dont mind giving them defence for their speed.

Anyways, I think this thread should be moved to the PvP forum because those are the people this issue affects. Its not really as much about kids vs adults, not about the mechanics of how tractors work and not about structural integrity fields as it is about pvp balance.

Especially with this new ship. Now escorts can tractor without giving up valuable science boff abilities which instead they can use for healing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
06-18-2012, 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamid
From a play mechanic point of view PH and APO do NOT stop MULTIPLE TBs from stopping a ship dead in its tracks. You and other posters are just flat out wrong w/this assumption.

Further Flight deck doffs mean the Pets can be relaunched before your console comes close to recharging, same for BFAW. Keep in mind the ad. frigs have more hull HP then BoPs flown by players (over 31k hull alone). 3 Purple doffs is ~7.5 sec reduction/doff for a total of ~22 sec reduction each time an hangar has a squad launched.

To the other poster, Karfi has a very good turn rate for it's size. I've had zero problems applying DHCs to escorts. You greatly underestimate the effects of things like stacked cront procs, power drained subsystems, stacking weapons procs, and tbs.
Further the federation current has no Flight deck Doffs.
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