Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
06-14-2012, 10:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_E_D_Allen89
What I meant was that Star Trek is indeed losing its way and I fear that is the path it is heading. I too see why Gene got headaches and I see why fans are frustrated. I don't disagree with you much. Just my meaning was that Star Trek is falling apart and we need to right the ship.
It's.

Not.

A.

Religion.

It's.

A.

Product.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
06-14-2012, 10:15 PM
I think Roddenberry hit the nail on the head with his "hope for the future" in early TNG. Kirk was okay, but far from an ideal man.

But yeah, JJ Abrams isn't doing the franchise any favours by going down the route he's going. Sure it'll bring in new, youthful fans, but when those fans see the old stuff, or if the old stuff makes a resurgence in the form of a new series/film, they're not going to like it and the franchise will limp on in pain until CBS/Paramount takes it out back.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
06-14-2012, 10:24 PM
What did Abrams do that was so bad exactly? Complaining about lens flare is just a stylistic thing. As far as the abundance of action scenes go, Kirk was never close to a pacifist, and IIRC the most popular of the movies were Wrath Of Khan and First Contact, both quite full of phaser fire.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
06-14-2012, 10:30 PM
This tired argument again? CBS bought Star Trek... CBS alone determines what Start Trek is.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
06-14-2012, 10:34 PM
Quote:
Looking at the new information on the upcoming Star Trek Sequel something occurred to me; is J.J.Abram staying true to Gene's dream and message?
Abrams is staying true to the PRODUCT which is owned by the studio which in turn is seeking to make money off the product they own.

Quote:
He argued that Gene presented the Star Trek Pilot as 'A wagon to the stars' and 'Cowboys with lasers'...however if you actually watch and listen to Gene talk about that, he says he only described it as such to get money out of the narrow viewed chairman at the time.
Yes, it was a means to an end. Quite frankly, much of TOS was action/sci-fi morality play, as opposed to simply a sci-fi morality play. The "action" part is what got viewers because it was a means to show the perils of the captain and crew. TNG could get away with sci-fi morality plays since the franchise was pretty well established as a hit series......which really wasn't till AFTER The Best of Both Worlds - a two-part ACTION/sci-fi adventure. We could stand to have episodes where Picard learns the flute, Riker get's a video game addiction from a butt-head alien ho, and Data wears funky masks.


Gene succeeded in making his "dream" and "message" a reality before he died.

Mission accomplished.
Done.
Finito.
End of line, and well done, Gene.

After his passing, Trek got a chance to explore far more than Gene would have ever allowed AND become epic once DS9 stopped trying to be TNG on a space station, and started cranking out the story arcs with its characters being the "new worlds" and "new civilizations." But here's the major difference:

Trek shows on TV have much more time to spare with regards to taking time to delve into morality plays and the deeper meaning of things. Movies don't always have that luxury. They have be entertaining from start to finish in order to get tons of people to come see it, and then come back again, all the while paying $10 and up each time till it goes to the cheapo theater. If Abrams can keep people entertained, then the Trek franchise gets investors to spend MORE MONEY on the product we like, thus we get MORE of the product in the future.

If they tank, well....you end up with post Nemesis and Star Trek: Akiraprise style "breaks" for years.


Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
06-14-2012, 10:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReginaMala View Post
What did Abrams do that was so bad exactly? Complaining about lens flare is just a stylistic thing. As far as the abundance of action scenes go, Kirk was never close to a pacifist, and IIRC the most popular of the movies were Wrath Of Khan and First Contact, both quite full of phaser fire.
Its not a question of action/violence amount. is a question of 'the moral of the story', the spirit of Star Trek!

TMP:Exsplores the unknown WOK:Exsplores Kirk losing himself and regaining that sparks SFS:Exsplores Freindship TVH:Explores mans destructive nature TFF:Explores the uknown again (no improvment on the first time ill admit) TUC:A big action send of for the series that explores the idea of 'change', inspired by the poor impression TNG made on fans. FC:explores Picards demons Ins: Explores morality Nem: Explores Identity...
...then theres ST:Abrams: explores lights on the bridge that point at you from every possible direction and the idea that a CADET that hasn't even completed training can get given the command of a Flagship straight of the assembly line! I wouldn't mind the reboot so much if the film at least had a sense of logic behind it!


ME: needs to explore a dictionary and spell checker lol
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
06-14-2012, 10:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickysmith1
Its not a question of action/violence amount. is a question of 'the moral of the story', the spirit of Star Trek!
The "spirit of Trek" is "let's have a space adventure that doesn't suck."

I don't care how much of a moral story is in a movie if the movie itself is lame. STV is a PRIME example. It has a great underlying theme about friends sticking together and facing personal demons, but the movie sucks...BADLY. Same with Insurrection.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
06-14-2012, 10:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickysmith1
Its not a question of action/violence amount. is a question of 'the moral of the story', the spirit of Star Trek!

TMP:Exsplores the unknown WOK:Exsplores Kirk losing himself and regaining that sparks SFS:Exsplores Freindship TVH:Explores mans destructive nature TFF:Explores the uknown again (no improvment on the first time ill admit) TUC:A big action send of for the series that explores the idea of 'change', inspired by the poor impression TNG made on fans. FC:explores Picards demons Ins: Explores morality Nem: Explores Identity... then theres ST:Abrams: explores lights on the bridge that point at you from every possible direction and the idea that a CADET that hasn't even completed training can get given the command of a Flagship straight of the assembly line!


ME: needs to explore a dictionary and spell checker lol
Or, off the cuff, you could say Abrams explores the nature of complimentary friendships with people quite different from yourself, and of accepting what you're given instead of complaining that it isn't what you asked for.

I'm not picking a fight or anything, but a lot of what Gene made was frankly terrible (TNG seaons 1 and 2, or The Final Frontier, anyone?), and his direct attempts at morality had all the nuance and subtlety of a train wreck. I don't watch TV to be sermonized. And if the past is only viewed through rose-colored glasses, nothing can ever possibly measure up.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
06-14-2012, 11:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by twg042370
It's.

Not.

A.

Religion.

It's.

A.

Product.
It is but it is also something that is art.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
06-14-2012, 11:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReginaMala View Post
What did Abrams do that was so bad exactly? Complaining about lens flare is just a stylistic thing. As far as the abundance of action scenes go, Kirk was never close to a pacifist, and IIRC the most popular of the movies were Wrath Of Khan and First Contact, both quite full of phaser fire.
Its called a beating human heart which was sorely lacking. The 2 movies you mentioned had that and balanced those action sequences with character moments and drama. He himself did acknowledge the fact that he did not know what made the human connection click with the TOS cast. That is what concerns me.
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