Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
06-16-2012, 02:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bringram View Post
I spent a ton of time playing with this in a parser. With PWOs you will actually do more DPS overall with Photons than with quantums. Photons have a higher firing rate, but quantums can crit higher.
He said with doffs so the quantums will fire as fast as the photons meaning the photons do much less DPS.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
06-16-2012, 07:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nycteris1523
with 1 day offical use of this ship in stf's i been using this following wep load out.
Forward 2 tet dual cannons --using for the higher proc rate over dhc
2 Photon launchers mk 11 blues.

using 3 photon consoles...

also have 3 doffs for the torp recharge ..blues cant afford purps but even with blues they fire off fast.

using Torp Spread 1 and HYT 3 .

still tinkering ...but dps looks solid.

fighting i am using is Delta's for further shield stripping. oooo aft 3 tet turrets.
Blue DOFFs are all you need with Photons, Infact when Purple proc they fire from the first tube not the second.

Blue 4s cooldown, 1.5s torpedo cooldown = .5s wait time on Torpedo 1, so Torpedo 2 fires instead.
Purple 5s cooldown, 1.5s torpedo cooldown = 0s wait time on Torpedo 1, so Torpedo 1 fires again.

Also keep in mind that the cooldown reduction kicks in about a second after you actually fire.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
06-16-2012, 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pottsey
He said with doffs so the quantums will fire as fast as the photons meaning the photons do much less DPS.
If you're comparing apples to apples firing rate is going to be higher with PWOs with photons or quantums.

Whether or not you use PWOs the DPS for photons is going to be higher because the sustained damage is higher. Quantums will still have a slower firing rate but higher crits. ie photons are doing less damage, but they do it more often. So, overall, DPS for photons is higher.

Spike damage- ie crits- are higher with quantums. If you can time you're abilities so that you have a massive crit, then it won't matter what you're DPS is.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
06-16-2012, 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bringram View Post
If you're comparing apples to apples firing rate is going to be higher with PWOs with photons or quantums.

Whether or not you use PWOs the DPS for photons is going to be higher because the sustained damage is higher. Quantums will still have a slower firing rate but higher crits. ie photons are doing less damage, but they do it more often. So, overall, DPS for photons is higher.

Spike damage- ie crits- are higher with quantums. If you can time you're abilities so that you have a massive crit, then it won't matter what you're DPS is.
I donít get how you can get more DPS from photons. On a torpdeo boat both fire at the same rate only Quantumís hit harder so you have higher hits, higher dps and higher sustained damage. So overall DPS for photons is lower not higher.

Unless you are only running a single torpedo weapon then photons might win out but with 2 or 3 torpedoes and Doffs Quantums are much better with a much higher sustained damage and spike damage.

With x3 of the best PWO's 2 or 3 Quantums pretty much fire at the same speed as 2 or 3 Photons
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
06-16-2012, 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pottsey
I donít get how you can get more DPS from photons. On a torpdeo boat both fire at the same rate only Quantumís hit harder so you have higher hits, higher dps and higher sustained damage. So overall DPS for photons is lower not higher.

Unless you are only running a single torpedo weapon then photons might win out but with 2 or 3 torpedoes and Doffs Quantums are much better with a much higher sustained damage and spike damage.

With x3 of the best PWO's 2 or 3 Quantums pretty much fire at the same speed as 2 or 3 Photons
I've never built a torpedo boat. I use 1 torpedo launcher and 3 DHCs forward. I played with different builds over about a month. I found that if you use more than 1 launcher then you lose more DPS, without the cannon, than you gain. Again, I'm talking about sustained DPS vs spike.

With the Armitage, and the fighters giving out sustained damage, a torpedo boat- built around spike damage- might work well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
06-16-2012, 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pottsey
I donít get how you can get more DPS from photons. On a torpdeo boat both fire at the same rate only Quantumís hit harder so you have higher hits, higher dps and higher sustained damage. So overall DPS for photons is lower not higher.

Unless you are only running a single torpedo weapon then photons might win out but with 2 or 3 torpedoes and Doffs Quantums are much better with a much higher sustained damage and spike damage.

With x3 of the best PWO's 2 or 3 Quantums pretty much fire at the same speed as 2 or 3 Photons
Photons are 6s, Quantums are 8s. Photons fire more often.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
06-17-2012, 12:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKnight1000
Photons are 6s, Quantums are 8s. Photons fire more often.
With the PWO's both fire at 1.5sec the max speed so both fire at the same time so how can photons do more DPS?



Quote:
Originally Posted by bringram View Post
I've never built a torpedo boat. I use 1 torpedo launcher and 3 DHCs forward. I played with different builds over about a month. I found that if you use more than 1 launcher then you lose more DPS, without the cannon, than you gain. Again, I'm talking about sustained DPS vs spike.
I find torpdeo only setups do more sustained DPS plus you do not lose DPS for long range fights or comeing out of full imuplse. Even Quantums on shields is well over 1000dps up to over 4000dps sustained depending on target. Even in the vault in a shuttle my torpdeo boat shuttle out dps's my cannon build.

EDIT more so against the borg where you do about an extra 1000dps due to the [borg] mod with torpdeos.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
06-17-2012, 12:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pottsey
With the PWO's both fire at 1.5sec the max speed so both fire at the same time so how can photons do more DPS?
Because PWOs dont proc every time you fire. Photons will give you more DPS because they will fire faster when the PWOs dont proc.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
06-17-2012, 01:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon304 View Post
Because PWOs dont proc every time you fire. Photons will give you more DPS because they will fire faster when the PWOs dont proc.
I run a torpedo boat with 10second fire rate torpedoís and they pretty much stay capped out at max speed at 1.5 seconds. Faster 8 sec torpedoes like Quantums do the same. Itís a 50% chance to trigger with 3 triggers per fire. If 3 lots of 50% fail there is normally another torpedo launcher waiting to fire anyway giving you another 3 trigger chances. Just how often are you going to fail 50% 6 times in a row? If you have 3 torpedo launchers you need to fail the 50% trigger 9 times in a row for to fail to shoot at near max speed. Just how often is that going to happen?

That is why photons give you massively less dps and why I never use rapid fire torpdeos launchers as the best torpedoes launchers are the hardest hitting, slowest ones you can find with Doffís.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
06-17-2012, 03:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pottsey
With the PWO's both fire at 1.5sec the max speed so both fire at the same time so how can photons do more DPS?
A Purple PWO DOFF is a 5s reduction. Each DOFF is only worth a 20% chance, hence two DOFFs are worth 20% x 2, three DOFFs are worth 20%x3 meaning they could both proc or only one could proc.

I have no idea where you got this 50% chance per DOFF nonsense.

6 - 5 = 1 = Photons
8 - 5 = 3 = Quantum, Plasma, RF Transphasic
10 - 5 = 5 = Chroniton, Transphasic

2 DOFFs use 2 Photons
3 DOFFs use 2 Quantums
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