Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Alright, I understand the need to "punish" a player who screws up, especially in a multiplayer setting. If the player who is screwing up doesn't learn then they won't get any better. The problem i see now, is that we are getting "punished" in more than one way.

I am of course referring to the "Attrition" respawn timer. On paper, it sounds like a good idea, but in practice it is less so. The reason it's been such an unpopular mechanic, is because it punishes Good Players as well as bad ones. I was playing Infected a few days ago, and we were fighting the tactical cube. I eventually died, and as I waited for those 30 seconds, I realized that everyone was dead. Everyone. There was not a single player alive on the field, everyone was stuck waiting for the timers to go away.

That has never happened before.

And I figured out why. When you remove a player from the playing field, you are denying his allies valuable combat resources, no matter how terrible a player he is. Sure, no one likes to be the guy sitting on the sidelines while his buddies have fun, but no one wants to be the only target left. It doesn't matter how awesome your gear is, or how great a player, if you have 2 borg neg'vars, and 5 raptors assaulting you, if you're alone, your sorry keister is toast.

What i'm trying to say, is that if a player is dying every 30 seconds, at least he's taking hits that everyone else won't be.

"But SolaCE," you might say, "how do we make the n00bs go away or get better?" Well we already have a way of doing that.

It's called the injuries system.

I propose that we make the injuries system more severe in STF's and the like, and relegate the compounding timer to things like the "no win senario" or perhaps a "SUPER Elite mode"; things that are built to kill you. Have injuries that shut down ship abilities, random weapon slots, random boff abilities (or even entire boffs...) It would give players a reason to stay alive (otherwise that shiny cannon is going away) but veterans can mend their injuries, and get to keep the firepower (or the extra health) that a n00b would provide. It's better than nothing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
06-13-2012, 07:33 PM
I've gotten used to it, and have actually tried to up my game for the sake of the team. It works exceedingly well when the rest of the team are doing the same.
Super ELITE mode? Really? .... spreading the butter a little thin there I think.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
06-13-2012, 08:34 PM
I have to agree with the OP on some points.

If you get into an STF etc with people who have very poor builds or are trying new types of ships etc etc you can completely remove a guy from combat for almost the entire STF very quickly. Ive been in some cure runs where 3 of 5 players were practicly perma dead because of 3 neg and raptors at spawn point + bops ganking each of us on respawn.

Believe it or not we won that cause me an my fleetmate have magical things called brains, mine oddly enough serves more of a purpose then keeping my skull from caving in, I think it does anyhow.... does double duty as zombie bait though.

With injury + respawn stack + 1 shotting npcs, it can get bad really fast. Some runs its more a 3-4 man then a 5 man cause of this. Does it make people improve? Thats debateable. Some people suck hard no matter the gear etc. My personal motivation is to never be the guy who brings the team down, did the timer effect me to become better? Nope, my goal is to stay alive as long as possible always, dead guys dont do much. Zerging isnt in me, unless im playing SC in which case iam zerg so im supposed to.

Honestly if they made it where when 1 persons respawn in group reachs a certain number of stacks rest of group recieves a small hull and shield buff or something till its over. Something aught to be done to fix this issue but i doubt it will cause i think gozer has no problem with it. We have to play the way they want after all according to him.

If someone wants to zerg let em, i personally think its a dumb idea to but hey not my place to tell em not to, but i dont want the whole team pulled down cause 1 guy is new/sucks either.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
06-14-2012, 09:32 AM
I have been the last ship standing on numerous occassions in both Normal and Elite STFs while standing toe to toe wth all sorts of baddies and...lived...to tell about it...not all the time but enough times where it doesnt bother me anymore...it just makes me stronger and a better player.

I have dedicated my 4k cps Oddy (operations) to be a Borg Killa Ship and have outfitted it as best as I can at the moment and keep upgrading as EDC's, Salvage, equipment, money ect ect ect become available.

When I first started STF's I took a very good and nasty PvPer in to tear up the Borg...that didnt happen...I learned the hard way that the best builds that kills Feds/KDF ships in PvP doesnt translate in to a winning combination with the Borg STFs and vice versa.

Fortunalty I was playing with good friends and they did not bad mouth me as a "noob" and other nasty remarks. Maybe because they knew I could make thier lives miserable in a PvP match or maybe it was because we were having fun and they were teaching me a new part of the game that I had yet to experience.

It is expensive to outfit a ship for a specific mission like the STFs and takes time to master the tactics to complete one with the optional victory. My suggestion is do not do Elite STFs with Pugs, if you are not willing to be patient and or teach pugs the correct way to attack an Elite mission. How else are they supposed to learn, but to do them.

Most peeps DO NOT just jump into an Elite STF without first doing the Normals. There is a very fast learning curve once you do an Elite STF because the tactics are a little different and things happen very fast and are very violent...ie: ships go boom faster.

I like the STF's, I am by no means a "Master" STF Guru, however I understand what it takes to do them properly and do not bash new players when they make mistakes, because it is trial and error mission, kinda of like PvP.

New players are/have been brutalized in PvP for being "noobs" and the same thing is happening in STFs, we alll have to start somewhere. How about giving the new players a break.

Btw...I do not have a problem with the penalty timer...fight harder.

my 2cps
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
06-14-2012, 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachVerant

New players are/have been brutalized in PvP for being "noobs" and the same thing is happening in STFs, we alll have to start somewhere. How about giving the new players a break.


my 2cps
Agree. I have been playing the game(PVE, I really don't have much interest in PVP in most MMORPGs) for over 2 years now and have yet to try an STF because of the reactions you get if you screw something up. I see so many people getting at eachother in zone chat and in starbase chat because so and so was crappy on their last STF that I don't even want to bother with it because I know I'll get on that PuG where someone has to be the "badass" and badmouth everybody else.

Another reason I tend to stay away from PVP. No matter how much you read up on it or think you are prepared for it, there is still the in-game learning curve which very few people that have been playing for a while are willing to give you the chance to learn.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
06-14-2012, 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JToney3449 View Post
With injury + respawn stack + 1 shotting npcs, it can get bad really fast. Some runs its more a 3-4 man then a 5 man cause of this. Does it make people improve? Thats debateable. Some people suck hard no matter the gear etc. My personal motivation is to never be the guy who brings the team down, did the timer effect me to become better? Nope, my goal is to stay alive as long as possible always, dead guys dont do much. Zerging isnt in me, unless im playing SC in which case iam zerg so im supposed to.
Nope. It does not. It just encourages leavers and Noobs to do there thing. Quite angering.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
06-15-2012, 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaShuk2381
Agree. I have been playing the game(PVE, I really don't have much interest in PVP in most MMORPGs) for over 2 years now and have yet to try an STF because of the reactions you get if you screw something up. I see so many people getting at eachother in zone chat and in starbase chat because so and so was crappy on their last STF that I don't even want to bother with it because I know I'll get on that PuG where someone has to be the "badass" and badmouth everybody else.
Normals are fairly easy. Join up, tell people you're new and need direction in team. If someone is like lolNOOBItypew1thnumb3rs add them to ignore and keep trucking. They are horrible people and you need no input from them. >_>

Really, ds9 zone chat is much more critical than any stf I've been in. No one talks in ds9 zone about the good stf run they had, it's all the frustration from all the stf failures of everyone logged in congealed into one social zone.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
06-15-2012, 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nynik
I've gotten used to it, and have actually tried to up my game for the sake of the team. It works exceedingly well when the rest of the team are doing the same.
This is the reason for the respawn timer change -- pressure on under-performing players to stop derping around and actually learn to play the game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
06-16-2012, 05:15 AM
i f you ask me penalty for death should be much more severe, like chances to broke your gear nad have to spend ec/dilitium to rebuild or repair it.

some, if not a lot ppls dont care about injuries, using boff or personal abilities abilities, some even are afk for entire fights.

injury and respawn timers are not enough. there should be something that will make them to want to improve their performance and skill.

why to care for injuries when they are gone when you change map, and when rest of group will complete the objective instead of you?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
06-16-2012, 05:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaShuk2381
Agree. I have been playing the game(PVE, I really don't have much interest in PVP in most MMORPGs) for over 2 years now and have yet to try an STF because of the reactions you get if you screw something up. I see so many people getting at eachother in zone chat and in starbase chat because so and so was crappy on their last STF that I don't even want to bother with it because I know I'll get on that PuG where someone has to be the "badass" and badmouth everybody else.
ther problem is not new people screwing up, the real problem is ignorant people screw it up, and they dont bother to listen or read team chat.

not long ago i was in cure ground elite with 3 people that was doing it first time and 4th, friend of theirs, to show them what is this thing stf, and frankly he/she wasnt so good or knowing.

we spended nearly a hour to complete it, but this didnt bothered me, they wanted to listen and learn, trying to do their best to follow instructions. i even enjoyed it.

but then, there is someone, just pulling every mob he can, just shooting without looking around. and/or not even remodulating their weapon, everyone telling him he should stop do this. but yet he continue.
or like ones that enter in control room of ka, and just start randomly lowering shields, before we even started clear the room, thus spawning more borg around us. and dont stop it even after told over dozen of times to stop.

thats the things that really get me. not the new ones that realy want to learn and achive something. and i belive its same with most expirienced people. the "badass" you are speaking about are usualy morons that do things like ones above.
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